BPU Work Session Transcript 11/6/2024, 5:30 pm

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I didn't think I am.

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Good evening. Calling to order this

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November already, 6th, 2024 meeting of the Board of Public Utilities. This is a work session

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Welcome everyone here this evening. Brave the weather or who is sitting at home relaxing and enjoying it.

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Evening entertainment online.

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We do have a full board here this evening, or we do have a full board this evening, not all here.

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But a couple of our board members are online also.

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And, uh.

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So as our council liaison, I understand.

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So, uh.

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We have a full house.

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And this is a hybrid meeting.

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You can participate.

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equally well from chambers or online.

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First order of business is public comment.

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on items which are not otherwise on our agenda.

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And if you're interested in Elk Ridge, that is on the agenda. So we'll do public comment on that later.

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So is there any public comment in chambers on items not otherwise on our agenda?

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I don't see any. Kathy, do you see any online?

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Thank you, Chair Gibson. There are people online. Let me just give them a quick instruction. If you're online and you'd like to give public comment.

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Please use the raise hand function to let me know.

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And if you're on a phone, you can press star nine.

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So if you have anything to say that is

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regarding something not on the agenda and would like to at this time, please raise your hand.

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I don't see anybody raising their hand. Thank you. All right. Next is approval of the agenda.

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And we do have an amendment to the agenda.

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Eric, would you like to make a motion? Yeah, I'd like to make a motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The motion is to approve the agenda, amended agenda first.

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So we do have an amended agenda. Okay, I make a motion that we

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approve the agenda as amended.

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the amendment is that we

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We'll follow this item

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with a approval of a statement concerning a closed session that we had two nights ago.

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That's great. Thanks for adding that. I'll second that. Okay.

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Moved and seconded to approve the agenda as amended.

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Any discussion?

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all this procedural, all in favor, raise hands or

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However, you can see people there.

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Hi.

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You've got them? Yes.

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Okay, okay.

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Motion passes five to zero.

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Now we'll move on to the closed session statement.

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Eric, would you like to do that one? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move.

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that the Board of Public Utilities approve the following statement for inclusion in the minutes.

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The matters discussed in the closed session on the 4th of November 2024

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At 5.30 p.m, we're limited only to those topics

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specified in the notice of the closed session

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And no action was taken on any matter during the closed session.

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I'll second that. Okay, moved and seconded that we include that statement in the minutes.

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Any discussion?

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For that, we'll do a roll call vote, Kathy.

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Member Hollingsworth?

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Member Heavner? Yes. Member Nakhleh?

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Yes.

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Member Stromberg? Yes. And Member Gibson? Yes. Thank you. Okay, motion passes five to zero.

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We move on now to presentations.

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The first is an Elk Ridge update.

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Philo.

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chair, I invited uh

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Elkridge.

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Yes, communities, the management company of Elk Ridge and owner and uh

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invite Mr. Mike Askins up to make a comment about an update for the

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gas conversion project

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And also Jim Bramblage is vice president of the region will

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make a couple of statements as well. So with that, I'd

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If we did have just a little update on our end of the project.

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We completed last week a leak detection survey. No leaks were found.

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in the whole park.

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We'll continue to do that the last week of each month.

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Until we

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meet resolution on this project.

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So with that, Mike, I'd invite you to come up to the podium and

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And Jim, gentlemen, before you start, just to outline for all of our guests here.

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After the presentation, we'll then

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have opportunity for

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board to ask questions.

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And then we will open for public comment.

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And then return to the board for final questions and comments.

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Thank you and welcome again, gentlemen. Appreciate you coming.

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Yes, good evening and thank you board for the opportunity to speak in person on behalf of yes communities

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And our Elk Ridge community.

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My name is Jim Ramlage. I'm the Senior Vice President of Western Operations for Yes Communities.

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which the Elk Ridge property falls under.

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Yes, communities as a whole is based in Denver, Colorado.

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We're a nationwide manufactured housing real estate investment trust. We offer high quality, attainable housing solutions across the United States.

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And yes, it's been in operation since 2008.

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we actually acquired the Elk Ridge property in 2013 as part of a portfolio acquisition.

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And that acquisition came from a previous MH operator called American Residential

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communities right

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Good evening. Thank you for inviting us up here today.

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Looking forward to speaking with everybody.

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So on this project, Mike Askins, Vice President of

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acquisitions and capital projects.

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With Elkridge, it was brought to our attention a few months ago.

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by the county that the current gas distribution system was nearing

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the end of its useful life. Working with the county, we proactively started investigating alternatives to replacing the gas lines, including the potential option

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of converting to propane.

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If the lines could not be replaced.

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During this time, the leak or the lines were leak tested by the county to ensure they were safe and no leaks were found.

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Based on our due diligence, which has been going on the past couple months, which included surveying residents appliances, meeting with local

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propane distributors, engineers, and utility companies we can

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concluded that replacing the existing natural gas lines is the best option to go.

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for the residents.

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We're actively working with the Department of Energy

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As well as Los Alamos County to engage in that replacement.

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This includes, which is the process we're in right now, interviewing engineers to design the layout to the county specifications. And we will be reviewing the scope and work

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of the costs associated with the natural gas lines and working closely with the DOE and Los Alamos County.

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to bring this project

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to conclusion.

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Because it's winter installation of the new gas lines will not occur until next year.

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In the meantime, we have spoke with the county and they have agreed to continue the monthly leak detection.

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Our goal is to minimize the impact

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and cost to all residents associated with this project.

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if there's any costs at all.

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to the residents.

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With that, thank you for again for having us up here.

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happy to take your questions.

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Thank you.

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We'll start here. Any questions?

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Any questions from Charlie or Jen?

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Well, just sorry, Chair Gibson, just on that last point about minimal or if any cost to the residents

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I'm just curious what any sense of what potential costs might be

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If any.

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to the residents is that

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Correct, yes.

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Right now, we don't anticipate there being anything. I can't promise working with the county or

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Department of Energy, what that side of the equation looks like, but we're still working through that.

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Jen or Charlie, any other questions right now?

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I just want to make sure that we

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state again, I think something that Karen has stated on a couple of occasions.

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There's not going to be any shut off of

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or reduction of gas services to the customers during this period while the replacement project, and especially as we head into winter, obviously snowing out here.

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While this replacement project is being scoped out, just want to get that on the record as saying that's not going to happen.

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Correct. Like I said, we're not going to start this until next year. It's very likely

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Once the project does start that there will be disruption in service

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But not over the winter.

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Thank you.

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I've got a couple of questions. First, looking backwards a little bit.

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When you started looking at propane, were you looking at it as a temporary solution

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to deal with this heating season or were you looking at it as a permanent solution?

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We were originally told that

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guests doing the new gas lines was not feasible. So we were looking at it as a

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more permanent solution, I think.

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I made a visit up here probably three weeks ago and quickly determined after meeting with Feral Gas and you know it

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was not the most ideal solution. And after meeting with the county and

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DOE, we've decided that

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the gas lines are feasible and we can move in that direction.

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Okay, thank you. Second question, looking forward

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You just talked about there might be some disruption when construction takes place.

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Presumably that's after the heating season

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But there are probably some

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units that have a gas secondary appliances

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what kind of

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What could you say now about what kind of disruption to service

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people might experience for whatever

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hot water heater, stove, whatever they might be running on gas.

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To be perfectly honest, we haven't gone that far in the discussion. I think once we get our team built with the engineers and the contractors.

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and understand better how the existing lines are laid out through the community, we can determine that and

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We'll communicate that through residents, whether it's adding shutoff valves so we can cut off certain sections at some time but

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I guess I'm generally referring to a project like this, there's going to be disruption and you know

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general road construction, digging holes for the pipes, and then we'll address the service once we have a plan with that.

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And I think we understand that if you're going to put pipes in the ground there's going to be

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that kind of physical disruption i was which

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That happens at various projects all the time, road construction, et cetera. We're used to that.

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But disruption of utility services

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can be

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That can be more of a disruption to life.

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Yeah. And, you know, we've done similar projects on water lines. It's a different utility, but the goal is always to minimize the

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disruption and keep it as short as possible.

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Okay, last call, any other questions from the board?

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Okay, we'll move on then to public comment.

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And I'd just like to get an idea, no commitment at this point, how many folks in chambers expect to want to make public comment.

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Okay. And…

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Kathy, can you take the same poll of folks online and get just a rough idea

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Right now I see one person online with their hand up, but is there anybody else on Zoom that might want to make public comment?

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You're not obligated, but if you have an idea.

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But just see the one. Okay, thank you.

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Just to review a couple things before we get to public comment.

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For those not used to it.

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We'll ask you to come up to the podium here, those who are in chambers.

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Whether you're online or in chambers, please give your name

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And that's for the record.

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And limit your comments to no more than three minutes, preferably less.

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Be aware that this subject has come up

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extensively at this board in September on the 18th.

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at two or three different council meetings the biggest one

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for public comment being on the 22nd of October.

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Some of us board members were in attendance there. Others have looked at the video

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So, uh.

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We've heard a lot of the comments that have been made before repetition.

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You are entitled to repeat if you wish, but it's not necessary.

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And, uh.

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If somebody says something that you agree with.

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You don't have to repeat that. Just say, I agree with

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Jane Doe over there and uh

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Everybody will appreciate the time.

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I would remind you, please address the board

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Through the chair, no individuals.

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And this is a utilities meeting.

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I know there are issues beyond the scope of utilities.

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that you have that

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with the landlord over there, but this is a utilities meeting we'd like to keep

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comments constraint in that lane, if you would.

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We will do comments from folks in chambers first, and then we will go online. Everybody will get their chance.

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So with that, I will open the floor for public comment.

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Good evening. My name is Jonathan Ernst.

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First, I want to thank the county for listening to our concerns.

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calling this meeting, inviting yes communities

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Very glad to hear that the uh

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proposal to convert our homes to

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propane is being disbanded.

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Well, I'm glad that Yes Communities is here.

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I just want to express a disappointment that we haven't been engaged as a community while

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all this planning was going on ahead of time.

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That's all I got to say tonight.

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Thank you.

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Hello, thank you so much for your time tonight. My name is Christina Pendergraft and I live in Elkridge.

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And just like Jonathan, I really appreciate our council listening to us and working for us.

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And I'm very thankful that representatives from Yes have been here.

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My concerns now are that we had to get to this point to begin with.

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the communication from yes was non-existent and it caused a tremendous amount of stress for the residents.

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There were some home sales lost.

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And while I'm happy with this outcome, I would really like to stress to yes communities as well as the council, can we please have

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communication with the residents so that there's not people who are afraid to turn on their heat or suddenly trying to find another place to live and the ramifications for that.

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Also, I would be interested in hearing the plans for the houses that have been identified as having pipes running right underneath them. I actually think my unit is one of them.

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So I would like some details on that and what would be involved with that.

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And just to thank everybody for the empathy for the residents, we received a lot of community support.

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And once again, thank you for your work. And I hope that we can all work together to

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as easy of a transition as possible and make our community as peaceful as possible so that people can come home and enjoy their houses and, you know.

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all of our neighbors are here. We all get along quite well. So I'm very optimistic with this. And thank you for your time.

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Thank you.

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Hello, my name is Sandra Mendieta Perez.

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I am here to thank you for

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for listening to us. It has been very stressful for everybody.

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I would like to

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ask in the future to US communities

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to please address us first and then go on with whatever plans

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that need to be done.

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Also, I still have concerns about

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the disruption that it's going to be. I understand that there's projects

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that take longer than others.

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But I need you to remember that our community is like a small city.

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We have all sorts of people living there.

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Like I said before, we have families with kids

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We have elderly, we have widows, veterans, disabled.

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single mothers.

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And of course, the lab people that live there too.

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So let's try to

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Yes, communities, please.

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try to communicate to the bosses and make sure that

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this.

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what this project that goes there's going to happen

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doesn't take as long as some projects that I've seen around here. We are New Mexico, but

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Yeah, we do deserve a little better.

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And I know we sometimes our projects take a little longer than usual but

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Remember, we have kids in our families

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and the disabled and the veterans.

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Another thing I would like to say also is that

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:17.000
Like I said, the communication, please, is very important so we wouldn't have

00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:21.000
So my stress and all the residents.

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:25.000
communication in

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:34.000
on all the projects because there's also other issues that, like you said, let's not get into it. But there is a lot more issues that we need to deal with at elk bridge

00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.000
that US communities has not addressed so

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:52.000
Thank you. Thank you.

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.000
Good evening. My name is Ken Mack.

00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.000
I also live in

00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:02.000
Elk Ridge. And I have a couple of things that I'd like to say. And the first is I'd like to thank

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.000
Yes, communities for being here tonight and for you all hosting it.

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.000
I'd also like to request

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:13.000
Like everyone else that's been up here at this point to

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:16.000
keep the lines of communication open

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:23.000
Now that we've got a dialogue going, I think it's really important that the conversation be with us, not just with

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.000
you all with the county.

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.000
I'd also like to know what the potential costs would be

00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:35.000
for this conversion to the residents. I know we can't determine that right now, but that's the

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:40.000
that's the line of communication we need to keep open. And the other thing is there are a number of homes

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:45.000
that are placed over gas lines. We've never had

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.000
those specific units identified as to which

00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:57.000
trailers are actually sitting on top of gas lines. And we've determined that that's not right. I won't get into anything else beyond that.

00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:02.000
But we'd like to know exactly what units are over gas lines

00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.000
and how we're going to remedy that. And will those situations be remedied

00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.000
prior to the rest of the community.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.000
That's it. Thank you for the time. Have a good evening.

00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:24.000
Thank you.

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.000
Thank you, members of the board.

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.000
I'm not good at public speaking, but

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:32.000
I just want to agree with Christina and

00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:38.000
The gentleman that just spoke. Could you please give your name for the record? My name is Stephanie Duffield and I live at Elk Ridge as well. Thank you, Stephanie.

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.000
um i i

00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:47.000
afraid that I might be one of the trailers over a gas line and I would like to know how dangerous it is.

00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:52.000
And, you know, I can't afford any extra payments to get

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:58.000
anything changed. So I would appreciate if the county or

00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.000
DOE or whoever can do

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:05.000
intervene and make sure that the residents are taken care of. And I do thank you for

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.000
helping us in this matter. Thank you.

00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:20.000
Thank you. And you do fine at public speaking.

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:29.000
Good evening. My name is Steve Johnson. I also live at Elk Ridge. I want to thank you like everybody else, for your time, the attention that you've given to this.

00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:31.000
I've heard a lot of concern from the community

00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:39.000
that doesn't live in Elk Ridge, people from different neighborhoods around town have been followed very closely. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear that

00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:46.000
a good resolve has been found. So we're very happy to hear that. I share all of their concerns.

00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:52.000
And when it comes to the disruptions, I think everybody will understand that during the transition.

00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:54.000
Disruptions are going to occur.

00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:01.000
And I'm feeling confident that the lines of communication will stay open.

00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:04.000
I am curious to hear about whatever costs

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.000
may be incurred to the residents.

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:10.000
So looking forward to hearing about that.

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.000
Thank you again.

00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:26.000
Thank you.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:31.000
Yes, my name is Richard Cottrell. I live in Oak Ridge.

00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:34.000
The question of follow the money.

00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.000
has come up and we've never heard an answer on.

00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.000
I posed the question to the county

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:43.000
Are we going to get a reconciliation?

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.000
for the money of the money

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.000
Yesterday, thank you for taking care of this.

00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:50.000
We very much appreciate that.

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.000
But that's a cost to install.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.000
is yes, going to own the system

00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.000
And is the community is the community

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:06.000
going to pay the county the fee for the cost of the use of the gas. We would like

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.000
Could this be reconciled?

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:12.000
and presented in a proposal so that we know what's going to cost to us.

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:18.000
And how it's going to be distributed and how the monies

00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.000
are going to be allocated

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:22.000
So is yes going to own the system?

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:27.000
And then is the county going to own the gas?

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:31.000
We'd like to know where this goes.

00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.000
that's the…

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:34.000
That's one piece of the puzzle.

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.000
The constructability of the project

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.000
Apparently, there's no design yet.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.000
They're going to get engineers to do all this good stuff. Fabulous.

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:46.000
In those plans that do get developed.

00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:49.000
I asked the county to publish them.

00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:52.000
So that we as a community can see

00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:53.000
how the plans are going to go forward.

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:57.000
And I'm asking you as the county to

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:04.000
present the question to you so that you can present the questions to yes communities. I think that's the way it's going to proceed.

00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:09.000
If I hear you quickly. So I'm asking you to ask the questions to yes communities.

00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.000
So that we can get the response back.

00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.000
of what the plans look like.

00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:18.000
for the constructability. The abandoned lines.

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:25.000
replacements and new systems. The cover steel system is outdated. Replace it with new polypropylene materials.

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:32.000
go forwarded, abandoned place and do it and rise it and install it. Fabulous. Absolutely fabulous.

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:33.000
It's the best way to go.

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:38.000
Is there going to be other systems distributed or disturbed during this construction?

00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:42.000
We would like to know what those plans are.

00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.000
And please answer that question.

00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.000
When you get the answer for the design characteristics.

00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:50.000
The last piece I'd like to say is thank you.

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.000
For everybody getting together.

00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.000
And yes, committees.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:01.000
They have an extremely profitable operation here.

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:03.000
one of the most profitable there is in the nation.

00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.000
Our roadways are full of potholes.

00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:11.000
And we're dealing with that on a daily basis. They claim that the county

00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.000
has ownership of the potholes at the street level

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:22.000
But just inside there is somebody else's. Can we get those potholes fixed? You have 10 seconds. Thank you.

00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:29.000
That's all I have to say, but please take our questions and get the answers from yes.

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:36.000
Thank you. And thank you.

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:42.000
Do we have any other public comment in chambers?

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:48.000
See, none. We'll move online. Kathy, would you please check online?

00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:52.000
If you'd like to make public comment, please use your raise hand function.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:59.000
Mr. Rosenbaum, I've enabled you to talk. You may need to unmute yourself on your end.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:04.000
Hi, this is Katie Rosenbaum, and I'm also in Elk Ridge over at 120

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.000
Can you hear me okay?

00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:09.000
Yes.

00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:14.000
Okay, thank you. I too want to jump in and A, thank the county.

00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:20.000
B, I want to think, I know we're not supposed to, Mr. Rieger. And I also want to thank Mr. Shelton

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.000
for his

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:26.000
kindness and their helpfulness

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.000
And easing as much fear as possible.

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.000
I would also like to address yes

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:34.000
SIRS.

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.000
Please address your comments to the board, not directly to ES.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:42.000
Oh, oh, okay. Well, sure.

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:47.000
Also, we would as well, Keith and I, we would like to see

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.000
more

00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.000
communication from yes

00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:54.000
Instead of telling us what they're going to do.

00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:59.000
seeing how everybody feels and what can we do to solve the issue before it got this far out of hand.

00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:05.000
But again, I truly, truly, truly on behalf of all the seniors, I want to thank you.

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:08.000
Thank you for listening and thank you for helping.

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:13.000
Thank you, county.

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:18.000
Is there anyone else online who would like to make public comment? If so, please.

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.000
Raise your hand.

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:26.000
Chair Gibson, nobody has their hand raised. Okay, thank you.

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.000
With that, we will close public comment.

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:31.000
And go back to the board.

00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:36.000
Philo, do you have anything that you

00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.000
I'd like to comment on.

00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:43.000
Chair and members of the board.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:50.000
I think, yes, communities mentioned that they would do the design and get it

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.000
in like standards for

00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.000
the DPU to accept that infrastructure.

00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.000
So initially, I think our

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.000
concept would be to put the

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:06.000
gas line in the roadway systems, the majority of the gas lines are

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:09.000
Outside the mobile home and

00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:13.000
Somewhat on DOE land or

00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.000
There's a mixture and then also under homes

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:20.000
to address that issue of what's under the home

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.000
Oh.

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.000
work with Clay about maybe putting a

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:31.000
additional notice as well as with yes on the homes where the gas lanes run under

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:37.000
That's the purpose of us doing a leak detection survey once a month is to

00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.000
Make sure that there are no leaks in the whole system as well as

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.000
Especially the homes that have gas lines running underneath.

00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:50.000
But the reason for moving the gas lines

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.000
within the road is within the road

00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:57.000
we can't have it under the home so that you know it needs to be realigned in some fashion.

00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:02.000
So our typical process is you get a design

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:05.000
that goes through design standards that

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.000
more than likely be poly pipe because that's today's standard

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.000
And then

00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.000
It gets constructed.

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:16.000
as-built drawings.

00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:21.000
established and then an easement to go with it and once all that

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:27.000
is done, system tested, all the connections made, then

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:31.000
Yes, can turn over that gas system to DPU, then we would own and maintain

00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:36.000
that gas system like we do every customer in Los Alamos County.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.000
So we'll get the whole system

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:43.000
consistent with development that

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:47.000
we do throughout the counties and nothing special but just uh

00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:52.000
bringing it up to standards and and uh

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:55.000
Billing wise would be no different than

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.000
county customer

00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:02.000
in town. So I know there's a lot of

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:09.000
issues with, you know, it's off of Lanel's distribution system and goes through their master meter

00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:15.000
We'll work on that piece as a county and with yes as we make that transition

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:20.000
With that, it will not be a bill from LANL, for example. It'd just be for

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.000
treated as uh county

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:29.000
customer and that's the goal of the project. And obviously there's a lot of work to get a design and a

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:34.000
constructor on board, but there's a lot of work to do between now and

00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.000
Probably April, May when uh

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:40.000
we can get in the ground and do construction.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:42.000
But I know the goal is to be

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:48.000
completed before the next heating season.

00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:51.000
Thank you, Father. My understanding is

00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.000
that all of the people

00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:58.000
owned trailers that had gas lines underneath

00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:04.000
were notified of that. So if you didn't get notified, you don't have a gas line underneath. Is that correct?

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:07.000
Yeah, and I need to

00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:11.000
I wasn't part of the notification. I'll have to ask Clay's group uh

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:14.000
If that occurred but if we what

00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:23.000
let us do a re-notification, I think just to be clear, if you do receive a notice.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:28.000
We'll let you we'll hang something on your door. That would be the best way.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:33.000
Well, email works and a few things well

00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.000
It's both because we both

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:42.000
We can do both, but I would invite people that are here tonight, if you could sign up

00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:47.000
with an email or a phone number that you don't mind getting a text.

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:49.000
We have been maintaining a website.

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:58.000
As we get information, we publish it. So for example, if we have approved design plans, we can publish that on our website so people can look at them.

00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:02.000
But as we get the information, we

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:09.000
been sending out emails and texts to the community that have signed up but

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.000
We're not able to

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:16.000
get that information to you if you're not signed up with us.

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:23.000
please do as you leave, make, sign on the list. We'll include you in future communications.

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:26.000
Okay, thank you. By the way, he mentions

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:31.000
Clay over here is clay mosley is our deputy utility manager

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:33.000
For gas, water, and sewer.

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:37.000
So he's the guy who's going to be more directly in charge from

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:40.000
from the county standpoint when things start happening.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:45.000
And you may well, he's going to actually give the next presentation after this one

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:54.000
And some of you may want to stick around for that. There will be some things that might be relevant and of interest.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:58.000
Including, I understand you'll probably kind of explain how

00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:01.000
we'd normally take

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.000
new developments into the utility system.

00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:08.000
This obviously is not a new development, but we're going to try to

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:12.000
follow that process as best possible.

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.000
When we get to it.

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.000
Okay.

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:20.000
going to other board questions. Mr. Knockley.

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.000
Okay, let's go to Charlie first charlie knockley

00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:29.000
Great. Thanks very much, Chair Gibson. You actually asked the question.

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:37.000
that I was most wanting to ask, which was a phyllo, which was, how do we get people notified as to whether or not their unit

00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:42.000
is one of the ones that has a gasoline running under it. And so Filey gave a great answer, but I just want to

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:50.000
make sure that anybody who's got a concern, I know you've tried to reach out to the customers and you're going to do a re-notification, which is fantastic.

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.000
But anybody who's got a question, right, like is my unit

00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.000
is one of the ones that has a gas.

00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.000
line underneath it they can

00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:04.000
reach out to the DPU directly and get an answer to that, right? I just want to verify that that was the case.

00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:06.000
Yes.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:09.000
And you know what those are exactly.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.000
Yes.

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:11.000
And you can pass that up. Okay, very good.

00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:15.000
Thank you.

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.000
Did you have any more, Charlie?

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.000
Okay, thank you.

00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:29.000
man i had the exact same question, but maybe to make it even more helpful, what process would a resident at Elk Ridge do to ask the county?

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:35.000
What's the best way for somebody to call and say, is there a pipe under my house?

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:40.000
Well, first of all, what I'm going to offer is we'll re-notify people tomorrow at you know during

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:43.000
I know we have a delayed opening, so we'll have to see on

00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:50.000
on our weather situation, but we'll work to do that. And then obviously they can call into customer care

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:53.000
and uh get

00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:57.000
routed to the right person and get an answer.

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.000
Perfect. Thanks for that clarification.

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:06.000
Anything else? The comments or questions from the board?

00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.000
All right.

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:13.000
That completes that agenda item. As I mentioned, you may want to stick around for

00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:19.000
Our annual update on the gas distribution system, the fact that that comes right here is strictly coincidence

00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:23.000
that annual update is

00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:25.000
scheduled before this issue even came up.

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.000
But I think…

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:36.000
There'll probably be some things here that are interest to you. And if you are headed out and headed home right away or whenever you hit home.

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.000
Please travel safely.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.000
With that, we'll move on to

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:48.000
Clay Mosley for the annual gas distribution system update.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:51.000
It's what? It was my pleasure.

00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.000
That's where it was.

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:59.000
I'll wait till it's all the way up here. Let me see. Is this on? Yes.

00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:04.000
Thank you, Chair Gibson and members of the board for having me here tonight.

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.000
Before I start, I'll go ahead and

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:11.000
see if I can answer just as in general

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:21.000
it went through my head. I served in a different capacity before I was in this position as the manager of operations under James Allred's engineering group.

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:25.000
So I have a lot of experience with uh

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:31.000
utility development construction projects. And so the question was what

00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:36.000
what would it what will the disruption look like? And you've seen

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.000
projects around town. And so you see

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:46.000
you know, generally there is excavation activity. It is going to be in the road, but generally there's

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:47.000
traffic control

00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:55.000
And they'll route people, make sure that you can get into your home every night. So that kind of thing is always addressed. There's always a plan to make sure that

00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:01.000
ingress and egress is maintained. We'll get to know each and every one of you quite well.

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:10.000
Gas lines generally are a lot easier to install than say water or sewer. Those tend to be

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:18.000
deeper, bigger pipes, larger trench, much more disruption than a gas line. Gas lines

00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:22.000
are a lot smaller. They don't have to be buried as deeply.

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:30.000
the trench size is a lot smaller. They tend to go a lot faster. On the back end, that's when the

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:36.000
the situation gets a little more complicated because we have to do a lot of pressure testing and quality assurance, that kind of thing.

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:46.000
Probably, in my mind, I could see that we would probably phase it so that we would build the system while your gas system stays on

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:51.000
And we would minimize disruption by basically building a parallel system

00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.000
And there would be like a day

00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:56.000
where your system gets changed over.

00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:03.000
it looks to us like there's going to be some residential plumbing that will have to happen. So you'll

00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:05.000
We'll have a contractor that can do both

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:11.000
utility side work and then like residential plumbing because there will be some

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:19.000
re-piping inside of the home. So that'll get done before we cut your gas off so that there's like a day where we will schedule with you, look, we're going to cut your gas off today.

00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:23.000
And then connect the new system to your new system

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:27.000
to your system. So it'll be done in parallel and the disruption will be

00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:32.000
fairly minimal to your gas service. The disruptions will be having construction activity but

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:39.000
These gas utility contractors, they're special. They are really good at at

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:43.000
I mean, they're very experienced. Once a utility contractor goes into the realm of gas.

00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:47.000
They're the most experienced utility contractors so

00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:52.000
Anyway, that might help a little bit. And as far as the gas, the…

00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:59.000
the units that are over the gas lines, you may have seen our guys out there doing, they went through and did

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:05.000
a comprehensive locate, you know, like went through with the locator and at first we

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:15.000
Because we had old records and we were overlaying it you know we thought that there were between 45 up to 68 of the units over the gas line. That's what it looked like at first.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:22.000
When we went out and really started locating it and putting marks on the ground, you probably have seen that.

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:26.000
we were able to narrow that down to about 25 units.

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:33.000
And most of them just barely, it just barely goes under it. Now, there are a few down on the south

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:37.000
Let's see, southeast side that kind of go over it fairly

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:45.000
about a third of the way under the unit. And then oddly, the office is probably the worst one. It goes right underneath the office.

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:52.000
But other than that, it just barely nips most of them. So it's about 25 units. We'll get a list put together.

00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:01.000
We weren't really familiar with the addressing and unit numbers, but we can get a list put together. Philo has already asked me to start working on that, so we'll get a list.

00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.000
All right, so moving on to our

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:07.000
gas system presentation.

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:13.000
You know, there's going to be some other information here about how the development process works at

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:16.000
might answer a few more of the questions as well.

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:19.000
At a glance, our gas system is

00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:23.000
White Rocks is probably more um

00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:26.000
typical of a municipal gas system

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:31.000
town site is fairly unusual in that it has two different pressure systems

00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:40.000
We have a backbone 100 pound system that ensures volume and pressure to all of the different neighborhoods

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:50.000
And I think as a safety measure, when this system was designed this way, we distribute gas at a lower pressure to the home

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:55.000
than what is typical in a municipal gas system. We distribute pressure at 20

00:42:55.000 --> 00:43:02.000
PSI versus the way WhiteRock is, which is closer to a 60 PSI type system.

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:07.000
Townsite has three border stations and that's where we purchase gas from New Mexico gas

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:10.000
WhiteRock has kind of a false

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.000
border station. The border station is actually farther up on New Mexico 4, but we have a

00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:23.000
300 PSI regulator station that is then dropped to distribution pressure, which is about 60 psi

00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:32.000
We have 97 miles of medium pressure and we have 16 pressure regulating stations.

00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:34.000
And White Rock is about 26 miles of

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:42.000
medium pressure gas line. We have had some additions to the gas system, especially this year. We finally took over

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.000
or accepted.

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:51.000
El Mirador, their gas system, and we're working on the new gas system at the Hills Apartments. It's not quite live.

00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:55.000
And we have not taken over ownership of that yet there are still

00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:02.000
quite a few quality assurance items that need to be taken care of, but it's getting very close.

00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:06.000
There are 45 new services that were put in this year.

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:10.000
All right.

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:13.000
Here's our annual O&M report.

00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:18.000
We have quite a few required annual maintenance activities that are

00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:21.000
regulated by the Pipeline Safety Bureau of New Mexico.

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:26.000
And you'll see that I have these items

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:28.000
highlighted in red, we did have an

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:31.000
quite extensive audit from the

00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:35.000
Pipeline Safety Bureau, New Mexico, and that we had several

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:40.000
areas that were, they gave us what was called notice of a probable violation and it was

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:46.000
they were administrative issues and record keeping so

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:50.000
They have obviously um

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:55.000
the federal standards are getting increasingly tight and

00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:03.000
since we had not gone through this audit in a while, they came on site and they were looking at records in a different way than they had before.

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:12.000
It's the onus is on the operator to keep up with the requirements. They don't really tell you in advance what the answers to the test are going to be. You just have to know it.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:16.000
And so they get these probable violations were

00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.000
mostly in record keeping. We were doing the work

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:27.000
But they don't just accept that you keep the record in a work order. It has to be maintained

00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:37.000
I mean, a lot of people are familiar with the nuclear industry. They have to be maintained and accessible at any time in a certain format.

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.000
We have as a

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:47.000
as a reaction to that, we have now dedicated one of our gas, water, sewer supervisors to be

00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.000
dedicated to just gas, which then left

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:55.000
us with a supervisor who's dedicated to just water. And now we're

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:58.000
getting one developed for just the wastewater collection system.

00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:07.000
But now that we have this gas supervisor, he's overseeing all of the records management and then all of these annual maintenance activities.

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:16.000
Additionally, we, you know, our guys are trained to do all of the leak repairs and incident reports so

00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:24.000
the operators have to have several qualifications, not just a journeyman gas fitter license, but they have to be

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:31.000
trained in what we call operator qualifications under the pipeline hazardous Material Safety Administration.

00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:35.000
And they're like, you know.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.000
just this humongous amount of training that they have to go through.

00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:42.000
We have installed

00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:47.000
several more cathartic protection unit anode units because there were

00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:53.000
there were some findings that some of our cathodic protection on our steel gas system

00:46:53.000 --> 00:47:01.000
the cathodic readings were low, so we've increased the number. We actually hired a consultant to help us

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:06.000
figure that out. And they basically pointed out where we should add more cathartic protection.

00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:10.000
cathartic protection is basically a um

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:15.000
it's making the pipe a cathode

00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:21.000
And we are installing what's a sacrificial anode. So we use magnesium. You can use zinc.

00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:29.000
And you basically put this anode in the ground, it starts to react with the soil and it becomes the anode

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:34.000
And so the pipe is protected from

00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.000
from corrosion.

00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:43.000
We have performed two Elk Ridge leak surveys. We just finished the last one and

00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:50.000
I know that there's some concern about the safety of the system out there and we've found no

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:57.000
no issues with it. We feel like it's a safe system to make it through to next spring.

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:05.000
We have done quite a number of commercial meter change outs and quite a few residential meter change outs as well, but they needed to be upgraded

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:10.000
And replaced because they were old.

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:15.000
So this is just kind of a

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:20.000
a visual of what it looks like when we do a new service, especially in White Rock, because WhiteRock

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:22.000
has a mostly steel

00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:26.000
system, but anything that we put in new

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:32.000
is converted to poly or not it's installed as poly and we transition

00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:34.000
from the steel to the poly pipe.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:37.000
So you can see the steel pipe is the black part here.

00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:46.000
And so a new tap is welded to the existing steel pipe and then you put in a transition. So the steel pipe is protected.

00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:50.000
from corrosion through the cathodic protection process.

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:53.000
And then the service valve and components, they're all taped

00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:57.000
for corrosion control, and they're also part of the cathartic protection program the rest of the

00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:06.000
the line that is installed is polyethylene.

00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:10.000
The cathodic protection zone that was increased in white rock

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:17.000
is highlighted in the sort of orange red area. This was the area that we were finding

00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:20.000
that for some reason.

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:25.000
the soil potential was really strange. So we were getting very low readings

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:32.000
on our cathartic protection. When we looked at the pipe, it was in very good shape. It looked brand new, but that doesn't matter to the

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:36.000
to the PRC, they want to see those cathodic readings to be

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:44.000
where they need to be. So we added a lot more anodes and you can you can go down in White Rock on Grand Canyon and some of the neighborhoods and you can see this this little

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:55.000
square patch of pavement that got pulled out where we had to attach the anode to the pipe.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:06.000
Okay, so this is going to cover how our gas system rules and regulations work, what construction standards are for gas pipeline installation.

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:09.000
regulatory compliance because there are a lot of

00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:17.000
regulations that oversee our gas system operation and ownership and how ownership and operation of a municipal gas system works.

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:25.000
We have a municipal or public, we're a publicly owned utility. So it's like we're a government chartered corporation.

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:31.000
But we still have to operate as if we're a regular government.

00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:39.000
So all gas transmission and distribution systems are regulated by the pipeline and hazardous Material Safety Administration, which we

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:43.000
we call PHMSA for short, and it's a division of the Department of Transportation.

00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:53.000
That is regulated by 49 CFR Part 192, Transportation of natural gas and other gas pipeline other gas pipeline

00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:59.000
And these are the minimum federal safety standards. States can adopt

00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:02.000
more stringent standards, which New Mexico does have.

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:08.000
Locally, the New Mexico Public Regulation Commission is who enforces the PHMSA

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:14.000
regulations. They enforce federal and state pipeline safety regulations and all other interstate

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:20.000
pipe hazardous material. So it's basically all petroleum

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.000
communication of petroleum products and pipelines.

00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:33.000
The development and ownership of a municipal gas distribution system, fairly unique in the state of New Mexico. There's only a

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:38.000
a handful of municipalities and we're one of them. I think Las Cruces is another one.

00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:45.000
So we have to abide by the anti-donation clause of New Mexico state constitution.

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:50.000
And that basically says that neither the state nor any county, school district or municipality

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:57.000
shall directly or indirectly lend or pledge its credit or make any donation to or aid of any person

00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:02.000
association, public or private corporation. So what that means is

00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:08.000
We, the utility, cannot develop utilities for private development.

00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:13.000
Any new development, that's a private enterprise. Even when the county

00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:20.000
developed land like on 20th Street, it was acting as a developer they had to pay

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:25.000
for those utilities, the county utility did not pay for those. The county had to do that.

00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:31.000
And so then it was turned over to the Department of Public Utilities. So that was kind of a unique thing that

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:38.000
we operated like two different entities there and they had to go through the same process that a private developer

00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:48.000
would go through. So the private developer develops the utilities according to all of our rules and regulations and standards, and then they convey those utilities upon satisfactory

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:52.000
compliance and completion of the project.

00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:57.000
We have what's called section, the subdivision rule

00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:02.000
And that covers what that is. So when a new subdivision or development comes in.

00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:04.000
comes in, they have to present the

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.000
the proposed project to us.

00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:12.000
And we make comment and we kind of go back and forth on how

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:18.000
Our rules work, what they need to do, and then they get engineering or architectural

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:26.000
designs that we then review for compliance with all of our rules and regulations.

00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:30.000
Again, we have the subdivision rule one and then

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.000
as it pertains specifically to gas, we have gas system rules

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:43.000
gas rule one through four, and that's we describe what a service is, what a service connection is, what the meter requirements are.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:47.000
And the responsibility of all gas equipment.

00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:52.000
So anybody working on the gas system has to follow these rules, including ourselves.

00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:58.000
We have construction standards, and that's in what we call section 101

00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:01.000
301 of our gas system

00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:07.000
engineering standards and they follow all ASTM, ASME,

00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:11.000
American Pipeline Institute API and ANSI standards.

00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:15.000
These are all engineering industry standard engineering standards.

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:21.000
Development of public utilities, any utility, gas, sewer, water, anything.

00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:28.000
They have the designs have to be developed and stamped by a registered professional engineer in the state of New Mexico.

00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:31.000
Easements need to be platted and granted.

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:37.000
to the county and those are reviewed by both the board and the county council

00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:43.000
And that's how the conveyance of the utilities and the easements to maintain and operate the system

00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:49.000
are handled. So yeah, there are agreements with the county to follow the regulated standards

00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:54.000
and agreements with the county to allow county staff to perform inspections and enforce the standards

00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:01.000
that are all documented in our rules, regulations, and construction standards.

00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:05.000
The DPU, Department of Public Utilities, has an engineering department

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:08.000
and an operations department, there are two different divisions

00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:14.000
We both work together to enforce all development and construction requirements.

00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:20.000
We ensure that utility contractors that work on gas have a GF9 or GF98 license.

00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.000
And that's specific to installing gas utility infrastructure.

00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:31.000
They additionally need to be certified by our one

00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:34.000
They need to be certified by our

00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:38.000
our gas, water, sewer superintendent

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:42.000
who is a pipeline inspection. He's a certified pipeline inspection

00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.000
official.

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:55.000
And he has to actually certify any contractor to weld on our gas system. So they actually have to come in and prove to us

00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:02.000
through several different welding processes that they are able to even work on our gas system.

00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:04.000
In some situations.

00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:10.000
there are requirements for specific contractors

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.000
This is usually when it comes into working on steel gas pipelines

00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:16.000
that they are required to have

00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:25.000
the regulated what we call OQ or operator qualification, which is a certification to perform certain procedures on live gas pipelines.

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:28.000
So, um.

00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:36.000
along with the engineering group, James Allard's group, operations also must formally accept newly installed utility infrastructure

00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:40.000
if deemed satisfactory. So we go through a punch list and make sure we've covered all of the

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:45.000
quality control, quality assurance.

00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:50.000
checklist that's applicable to all of our standards and requirements.

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:53.000
And we make a recommendation to the county council

00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:58.000
that we then make a recommendation to the county council to formally take ownership and operational responsibility

00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:02.000
for all of the new utility infrastructure.

00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:08.000
And we'll show you kind of what this looks like. These are just examples. So this is left side picture is El Mirador.

00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:14.000
We go out anytime there's a piece of pipeline, we have to inspect all the welds, all of the

00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:18.000
appurtenances that are included like valves

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:24.000
unions, we inspect all the welds. We oversee all pressure uh

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:30.000
pressure tests, and then we ensure that they have used the right type of sand to backfill

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:36.000
or they've sleeved it properly. There are no rocks in the trench and so

00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:40.000
the process is quite exhaustive.

00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:43.000
And this is an example of

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:45.000
like the engineering group

00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.000
coordinating gas system work

00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:52.000
with a contractor. So we actually kind of take over

00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:58.000
Even though it's a private development, we, the county, take over how the construction project goes.

00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:05.000
Because it's now our it's going to be our infrastructure. So we coordinate all of the construction

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:08.000
all of the tie-ins.

00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:18.000
every little piece of that pipeline is overseen by the county utilities during the construction process.

00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:21.000
So these are like coordination plans.

00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:23.000
that's

00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:24.000
are

00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:30.000
overseen by us during the construction process.

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:34.000
All right, moving on to strategic planning for the gas system.

00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:39.000
You know, we continue to invest in our workforce. GWS gas fitter

00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:45.000
license apprenticeship program. So really, you kind of have to have

00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:50.000
the experience and expertise of

00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:57.000
of longtime gas fitters to help apprentice the younger guys who are coming in and wanting to be

00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:04.000
that are going to be qualified to work on the gas system. So we have developed an apprenticeship program and then

00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:10.000
everybody in our organization goes through the PHMSA OQ

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:15.000
training to do anything on the gas system.

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:23.000
We have an engaged and well-trained workforce and they are all professionals and they're self-motivated and they

00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:25.000
They work with each other to hand

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:29.000
to hand this skill down to the newer generation.

00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:32.000
We have a new gas system

00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:40.000
I said superintendent, that's a gas system supervisor that's dedicated to developing and continuously work updating

00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:44.000
workflows to meet regulatory requirements. So all of these things have to be documented and put together.

00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:47.000
There's a lot of new things that we're

00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:54.000
putting together as procedures so that they're in our system and the PRC will be able to look at

00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:57.000
how we operate the gap and maintain the gas system.

00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:05.000
So we have developed a system records and data management, and we already had a subscription to something

01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:08.000
called Energy WorldNet that uh

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:15.000
manages our operator qualifications and now we're doing the rest of the workflows in that same system. So it's all in the same

01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:19.000
general location and it's an industry standard gas and petroleum

01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:27.000
system. We're continuously training and improving operator qualification procedures. There are over 90 qualification group areas.

01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:36.000
And over 180 procedures that have to be certified for each OQ qualified gas system operator.

01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:43.000
We've begun to standardize and document all of our regulated gas system SOPs.

01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:50.000
And like I said, we cross train each other and so that everybody is qualified to work on the gas system at some level.

01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.000
And we have a very

01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:58.000
We have a very strong asset management team.

01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:01.000
We go through, look at all of the

01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:06.000
critical things that we're going to need to do over the year we meet

01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:11.000
quarterly most of the time, and we go through all of the system requirements needs uh

01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:13.000
potential weak points planning

01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:18.000
And budgeting.

01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:25.000
I always like to put this up here. It's interesting to see what our gas sales and therms are.

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:31.000
I know Chair Gibson has done a much more exhaustive report on

01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:37.000
Therm sales overlaid with heating degree days. But this just gives a general idea we have

01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:40.000
you know, our biggest areas are residential and commercial

01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:47.000
municipal users, which is the county. Water production, we do have

01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:50.000
in the water production system we have a

01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:56.000
one well that runs a large gas turbine engine.

01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:58.000
And so

01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:02.000
I said gas turbine, it's a direct derived gas engine to a direct drive well um

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:09.000
So it uses gas and we have to schedule gas purchases when we're going to run that well.

01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:12.000
And then we have the schools also are big gas users but

01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:15.000
you can see that generally

01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:18.000
You know, it, it, uh.

01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:25.000
higher gas usage coincides with colder years. There was a bump upward during COVID when people were at home.

01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:28.000
So that's that kind of spike.

01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:30.000
There.

01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:34.000
I think that's it. Any questions or comments?

01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:37.000
Thank you, Clay. You're welcome.

01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:40.000
First, see if we've got any questions from

01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:44.000
our online board members.

01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:48.000
Well, Clay, thank you. This is Jen.

01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:56.000
Just make sure I understand the process. It was a nice outline of how the one goes about

01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:59.000
Developing and acquiring a new system.

01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:05.000
I believe at the end you mentioned that you ultimately go to the

01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:10.000
County Council to formally request taking ownership. What I missed, I guess, was

01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:12.000
in the many, many steps before that.

01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:16.000
In terms of the planning stages and

01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:20.000
And then ultimately the various stages of the construction process

01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:24.000
Are there prescribed points in that?

01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:28.000
you know chain chain of actions where you have to come to the board

01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:29.000
and or the county council for approval

01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:36.000
And what is the involvement of those entities?

01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:41.000
Yeah, that's a good question. Yes, there is a sequence of steps and

01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:46.000
Generally, you know, they come in to community development and

01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:49.000
they have they will put together sort of a rudimentary sketch

01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:56.000
community development will direct traffic and have them meet with the different

01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:02.000
departments, they'll meet with public works because they have a parallel process that's very much like ours.

01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:09.000
So Public Works will have all of their engineering oversight. Utilities will have all of ours.

01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:14.000
then they'll community development will make sure that it aligns with the development code.

01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:21.000
And so there's several things that have to be analyzed for development.

01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:27.000
And then they start doing the engineering work or architectural work and so

01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:34.000
they start producing plans and it goes through a process sometimes 30, 50, 90%.

01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:37.000
But during that, they're interfacing with our engineering department

01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:47.000
And we'll make comments, changes. And so it kind of bounces back and forth until we have a 100% final plan.

01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:49.000
and um

01:04:49.000 --> 01:04:54.000
that's when, you know, they're sort of released for construction

01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:59.000
And once they have an approved plan for construction and then uh

01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:03.000
Once that is done.

01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:06.000
we have to come to the board for approval.

01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:11.000
And then county, it goes through like an ordinance process and and um

01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:20.000
that ordinances will be developed and voted on to accept the utilities as ownership.

01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:21.000
Does that answer your question?

01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:27.000
Yeah, very much. Thank you very much.

01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:30.000
Any other questions right now, Jen or Charlie?

01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:33.000
Yeah, I had a couple questions for Clay.

01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:38.000
are the material, the pipes in our current

01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:43.000
utility gas system are mostly steel or maybe entirely steel. Is that right?

01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:44.000
Like…

01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:45.000
In White Rock.

01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:52.000
Baranca Mesa has a lot of steel because it's kind of an older piece of the gas system.

01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:57.000
And then some parts of town of downtown have

01:05:57.000 --> 01:06:02.000
have some steel, but it's being replaced

01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:03.000
Mm-hmm.

01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:07.000
Over the years, because the cathartic protection is always a challenge

01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:09.000
the first

01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:16.000
plastic or poly pipelines focused on replacing the steel and in downtown.

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:25.000
And we do have a few isolated sections of steel that are slated for replacement in downtown.

01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:37.000
The system up on Bronca Mesa is actually in very good shape, so we're not planning on replacing it. We'll just keep maintaining it as a steel pipeline. The same in White Rock. So the steel's

01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:38.000
Okay.

01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:41.000
very good. And even though it's, you know, pushing 70 years old, there's nothing wrong with it we'll

01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:48.000
Anytime we tie into it, we're, you know, with the cathodic protection, it looks brand new.

01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:55.000
So there's no need to replace it. But then the rest of the system, like anything from the burn area project, from the post

01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:58.000
Cinero Grande, fire, all of that's all plastic.

01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:59.000
Yeah.

01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:02.000
Poly pipe. Yeah, so I would say

01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:06.000
in the town site, the majority is actually poly pipe

01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:07.000
Oh.

01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:11.000
down in white rock the new El Mirador is of course poly and then

01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:18.000
I think Pinyon Trail is right in the middle of White Rock is poly. And then all of the new school services to the new schools, those are

01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:19.000
poly pipe, but otherwise it's steel.

01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:23.000
So, okay, so Mirador's poly so

01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:29.000
it's likely then it sounds like that's the modern choice. So it seems likely then that um

01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:37.000
the Elk Ridge project, although you haven't sorted it out yet, but it seems likely that's going to be polypipe. Is that right?

01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:38.000
Yeah.

01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:39.000
Yeah, just like Philo said, that's the modern standard. Yeah. So poly pipe.

01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:43.000
Okay. So thinking of time to get the project done

01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:47.000
I presume that's a much quicker installation, right?

01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:48.000
than the

01:07:48.000 --> 01:08:03.000
It can be, you know, there's going to be some research that needs to be done. We're going to have to locate all of the existing utilities, mainly the water line. I think we kind of know where a lot of the sewer lines are easier to locate because, of course, there's a manhole, but

01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:06.000
The water system is going to be the

01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:09.000
a challenge

01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:15.000
And as is the existing gas system, because we found that there's like a concrete cap on top of it.

01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:16.000
Mm-hmm.

01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:17.000
And so that can be problematic.

01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:18.000
Mm-hmm.

01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:22.000
But, you know, the part of the

01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:24.000
construction services will be that the

01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:31.000
whatever contractor comes out, they're going to need to go out and do what we call potholing or hydro excavation they'll

01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:37.000
they'll bring out a high pressure water

01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:38.000
Mm-hmm.

01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:43.000
And then a high pressure vacuum to pothole and find everything. So we'll know where everything is

01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:47.000
by actually physically identifying it through the hydro

01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:49.000
excavation and then that

01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:54.000
will dictate kind of how the design goes as well.

01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:55.000
Okay, great. Thanks for

01:08:55.000 --> 01:09:03.000
So that will be an extra process.

01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:04.000
I see.

01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:05.000
When you're building some new infrastructure in an existing area, it's not like El Mirador, which is just fresh barren ground.

01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:10.000
I see that makes sense. Okay, great. Thank you.

01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:16.000
Okay. So that will be a little noisy.

01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:19.000
Matt or Eric. Matt? Matt, go ahead.

01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:28.000
Thanks a lot, Clay. This is a great presentation, really informative and super timely with the discussion on Elk Ridge. I know it was a coincidence. Perfect.

01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:34.000
And thanks for keeping the gas system going. Thanks to you and the team and keeping us warm on snowy nights.

01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:40.000
I had a couple of questions, mostly on your second slide. You don't need to bring it up, but it's the O&M report. And in the red, you had highlighted

01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:43.000
Actually, if you don't mind, let's go back to that because I did kind of

01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:45.000
I did kind of rush through that, so…

01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:48.000
Great, yeah.

01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:53.000
I have just a couple of questions. You'd read the staff report so i didn't

01:09:53.000 --> 01:10:00.000
Let me go back.

01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:08.000
Yeah, there it is. Yeah, I was really curious. Are there any outstanding PRC mandated corrective actions that you're still working on or are they all closed out?

01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:12.000
You know, that's a good question actually i

01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:14.000
We wrote a letter.

01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:19.000
And we addressed all of those issues to the

01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:22.000
Bureau chief and

01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:28.000
I'd have to get with James. We wrote a letter and we addressed all of the things

01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:32.000
And they basically give you kind of a

01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:37.000
it's like they put you on notice and you hit so we had a response to everything

01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:45.000
And they got the letter and acknowledged it. And we had a response and a corrective action and they haven't

01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:52.000
They haven't pushed anything past that. So they realize, and we have a

01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:57.000
we meet with them, you know, and we sit down with them and go over what it is. And they acknowledge that

01:10:57.000 --> 01:11:03.000
that we see that you do these things, but until you document it in this way.

01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:16.000
It's like it didn't happen the way, you know, and so you know that that's kind of part of the issue with the Elk Ridge gas system. If you don't have records and they're not maintained all the time over these number of years.

01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:21.000
we need to have a documented record of all of the O&M things you did

01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:25.000
to a gas system or else that gas system is deemed unsafe.

01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:31.000
And so they need to see it in a certain way or else, you know, so they start this violation

01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:40.000
sort of threat and say, you need to start maintaining your records in this way. And so that that's what we've started to do is develop a program

01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:45.000
that is different from the past where we were able to sort of ad hoc pull up

01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:52.000
work orders ah yes we did that because here's the work order. And they would kind of accept that in the past.

01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:54.000
But they don't do that anymore. They need to see that you had

01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:57.000
I want to see that you went out and you didn't do

01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:02.000
atmospheric, like atmospheric corrosion control

01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:06.000
we would do that while we were doing meter change outs.

01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:10.000
And we would do atmospheric corrosion control and that would kind of be

01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:12.000
a little blurb in our work order. They didn't accept that.

01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:16.000
they need to see that you went out and did that specific procedure by itself.

01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:19.000
So you can't overlap things and then

01:12:19.000 --> 01:12:22.000
pipeline patrol.

01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:28.000
we have to actually go out to every little piece of pipeline that's above ground

01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:33.000
And do all of this documentation of it. And before we just went out and did it.

01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:40.000
And we knew where all of those pieces were. And we would say, yep, pipeline patrol done.

01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:43.000
And now we have to do more than that.

01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:45.000
So it sounds like we're converging

01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:51.000
But it's not checked off. Right. And it needs to be in its own

01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:53.000
category of

01:12:53.000 --> 01:13:00.000
data management. It's like, all right, let me see all your pipeline patrol records and they need to be in this

01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:09.000
order. Okay. And it sounds like you said you're talking with PRC all the time, but is there an annual cadence when they come and check the books? Yeah, you know.

01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:21.000
that I haven't been, not really. They'll kind of tell you, you're due for one of, and we never know exactly when that's going to be. It had been quite a while since we'd had

01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:27.000
PRC here. And as a matter of fact, from their last audit, we had all of these

01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:33.000
matters that we had addressed from the audit back in, I think it was 2017.

01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:38.000
And we had all of these things that we had addressed and we had record of it. They had somehow lost the records.

01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:41.000
And so we had to do all of this

01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:46.000
record gymnastics, you know, look, we've got to find what they what we

01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:50.000
We had letters and everything and they were like, you don't have record of that

01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:55.000
And we're like, wait a minute. Yes, we do. We have letters that were to you. So there's always this

01:13:55.000 --> 01:14:01.000
you know, I'm sure in your workflow, you've run into things like this. So it does happen

01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:07.000
that one side says, no, you don't have it. Yes, we do. And we were able to find it, but it was part of the

01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:11.000
audit finding. And, you know, James Allerard did a good job of

01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:18.000
going through point by point, we pulled in we had a we had a reaction team that we put together everything we

01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:27.000
All right, you address this. You addressed. And so we would go and find everything. And we had a response to everything. So that satisfied them

01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:32.000
For this time. But they basically said from here on out, you better have it done this way.

01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:37.000
And so as a response, last year's

01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:40.000
my presentation to you was

01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:43.000
we're going to have to do this differently. And so we were able to

01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:48.000
add this new position that basically focuses on gas and doesn't pull

01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:54.000
the same crew to do wastewater backups or water line breaks. They stay on gas.

01:14:54.000 --> 01:15:01.000
When they're on it, yeah. Great. That helps me understand the dance. So thanks.

01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:05.000
It's everything. Yes, thank you, Chair Gibson.

01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:08.000
Clay, thank you. I always appreciate your presentations.

01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:15.000
It's really nice. And so in your presentations, you mentioned pressure testing a couple times.

01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:20.000
And I'm familiar with, or at least what I'm used to, is if you hook up a new structure, you're going to

01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:27.000
pressure test that structure before you hook up to it. So getting back to Elk Ridge, when you

01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.000
Do you think the plan is when you

01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:31.000
when the contractor, whoever that is.

01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:35.000
changes over to the new system.

01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:40.000
Are they going to pressure test the units even though they've been there for a while? Or would that be part of the standard?

01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:47.000
Yes. So there's two different sides. There's kind of a handshake that's going to occur, you know, and it's at the meter.

01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:55.000
And this has been part of the ongoing conflict is that somewhere in time, the county went out there and put in individual meters, even though that wasn't

01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:01.000
known to be our gas system. And it's still like, how did this happen? None of us know but

01:16:01.000 --> 01:16:05.000
But the fact that we had a meter there meant that

01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:06.000
You know, we had some

01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:08.000
skin in this game and we had to like

01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:11.000
start saying, well.

01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:20.000
what's the downstream pressure? What's the upstream pressure? And we had never established what's called an MAOP, a maximum allowable operational pressure.

01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:30.000
on that system. And that's part of the issue is that in all of our gas systems, we have to establish, and James Allred has to sign off on it.

01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:41.000
These are our MAOPs for this gas system. That's what this gas system, because otherwise if you go above a certain pressure, you might have leaks and things like that. So we didn't have the records for that.

01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:46.000
We're getting to the homes. Going to the homes now.

01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:50.000
When we disconnect a gas system.

01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:58.000
Yes, the new infrastructure that goes into the past the meter that will have to be pressure tested by a residential plumber.

01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:02.000
And so just like a new

01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:08.000
If you get a new furnace or something and a plumber comes in and does gas system piping or we

01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:14.000
anything that changes, it always needs to be pressure tested by a residential mechanic. Now, the existing home

01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:22.000
is that do you have to do that? Do you have to pressure test the existing home before you hook up to it? Yes. Okay. Because we're going to…

01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:33.000
inevitably, we're going to have a lot of residential piping that's going to change. So when you go, right. Okay. So I'm just trying to be clear. So that means you're going to have to go into the home, shut off all the valves.

01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:38.000
do pressure testing. I'm sure that if there was a home in Elk Ridge that

01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:40.000
had a leak in it, they would probably

01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:44.000
detect it because that stuff is pretty pungent

01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:48.000
But if there is a leak in a home

01:17:48.000 --> 01:17:50.000
We've done past pressure test, what happens?

01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:57.000
So we have had this before where we had to go in and change. We've changed people's water systems to go one way or another.

01:17:57.000 --> 01:18:00.000
the cost of

01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:05.000
of all the residential plumbing is borne by the project, not the resident.

01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:07.000
we pay for even if it was something that was

01:18:07.000 --> 01:18:13.000
It wasn't leaking before, but now we disconnected it. We did something to it.

01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:20.000
Now, if it's an appliance, if it's in the appliance, that will have to be hashed

01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:26.000
if it's actually like you have a stove from 1970, you probably need to replace it um so that

01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:32.000
that will have to be decided. That part, I don't know. But we've had that before and we were able to say

01:18:32.000 --> 01:18:39.000
to a resident, you know what, that's an unsafe appliance and it needs to be replaced. But the rest of the

01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:41.000
residential plumbing

01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:44.000
that will be borne by the project.

01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:49.000
Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that, Clay.

01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:52.000
Clay, um.

01:18:52.000 --> 01:18:55.000
You presented a nice list on that that

01:18:55.000 --> 01:19:00.000
view slide that you just had up there of all the different things that you

01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:05.000
called Required Annual Maintenance Activities.

01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:09.000
Which are mostly inspections and

01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:12.000
replacing cathodic protection as necessary.

01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:18.000
Do I understand correctly?

01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:20.000
that

01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:23.000
That's done and has been done

01:19:23.000 --> 01:19:26.000
through the whole rest of the community on the gas system.

01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:30.000
But to the best of our knowledge.

01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:33.000
Little, if any of that has been done

01:19:33.000 --> 01:19:35.000
at all over the decades

01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:37.000
for the Elk Ridge system.

01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:44.000
That is correct. So I did uh sort of

01:19:44.000 --> 01:19:48.000
talk to some of the, you know, I've been here a while. So I talked to some of the guys who have worked in the department and they have

01:19:48.000 --> 01:20:00.000
they have some knowledge of being called out there for problems, but they've always known that system to be, and they were doing that as a courtesy to county, not as a customer, but a county resident.

01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:05.000
So they would call out they've they have done

01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:13.000
they were like, where's the DOE in this? Where is the you know who does this? But we were here and we had a 24 seven crew. So we took care of the problem.

01:20:13.000 --> 01:20:21.000
But we just didn't have the records for how where this gas system came from or anything like that.

01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:28.000
We've done work, especially with the meters. We have the risers and the meter itself.

01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:34.000
was always known to be art, but that's kind of like, well, we attach to your system

01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:41.000
But what happens under the ground, I don't know who's managing that. And so it was always a weird situation for us to deal with it.

01:20:41.000 --> 01:20:49.000
And we were never able to find any records. So that's always been the issue

01:20:49.000 --> 01:20:51.000
And it seemed like…

01:20:51.000 --> 01:20:53.000
you know, everybody

01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:56.000
just kind of like, well, at some point we're going to have to

01:20:56.000 --> 01:21:00.000
think about this and here we are.

01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:04.000
Is it possible that

01:21:04.000 --> 01:21:05.000
the county

01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:09.000
put in or think that meters were put in

01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:12.000
Back in the AEC days.

01:21:12.000 --> 01:21:16.000
No, no, they're not that old.

01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:22.000
But they are now out of compliance. My predecessor began to notice it's like

01:21:22.000 --> 01:21:27.000
We need to have lockable valves. We need to have these types of risers and

01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:32.000
And all of a sudden they're like, this is a this is a

01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:35.000
a liability for somebody we don't know who

01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:41.000
that we need to now perform some upgrades to the riser and the meter itself.

01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:44.000
who's responsible for that?

01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:48.000
And that's where this all started.

01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:50.000
And yeah.

01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:53.000
Okay.

01:21:53.000 --> 01:21:57.000
Another thing I think I understand, but I'd like to

01:21:57.000 --> 01:22:00.000
make sure is that

01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:06.000
we can't really inspect the steel pipe all the way through to know what condition it's in.

01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:14.000
you've on the rest of the system, you do the various kinds of other inspections and you do the cathodic protection

01:22:14.000 --> 01:22:19.000
And that pretty well guarantees that the pipe is in really good shape.

01:22:19.000 --> 01:22:22.000
And our problem at Elk Ridge is since that wasn't done

01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:25.000
We don't know what condition it's in. Right.

01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:35.000
Yeah, it's going to fail next week, but we don't know. Yeah, we surmise that

01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:37.000
our soils around here are not corrosive.

01:22:37.000 --> 01:22:46.000
We surmise that the gas system is probably safe, but that does not fly to the PRC, right? So they need assurance and

01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:54.000
It's just like any regulated industry. If you don't have record of it, it never

01:22:54.000 --> 01:22:55.000
you assume that it's not.

01:22:55.000 --> 01:22:58.000
not in good shape. So that's where we are.

01:22:58.000 --> 01:23:04.000
Okay. Any other questions now from the board?

01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:09.000
If not, I'll open it up for public comment. If there's any public comment on this item.

01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:15.000
First, is there any from anyone in the chambers?

01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:27.000
Certainly. Come on up, sir.

01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:28.000
Richard Cottrell again.

01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:33.000
Enlightening. Thank you. Appreciate the presentation on the gas system.

01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:35.000
Just to…

01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:38.000
hear us your words.

01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:40.000
to us that to us

01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:42.000
this conversion

01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:47.000
that you're going to route the piping system through the streets

01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:52.000
And then the point of connections and a lot of the trailers are actually in the boundary line

01:23:52.000 --> 01:23:58.000
between the back of the traders of this next door neighbor.

01:23:58.000 --> 01:24:02.000
It's in the midsection. So there's a long

01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:04.000
piece of utility work.

01:24:04.000 --> 01:24:08.000
that needs to be excavated

01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:09.000
And that's

01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:13.000
the point of connection to the traders is in the back

01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:17.000
And if it's in the pipe is right through the street

01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:23.000
that cost to install that burden of cost, is that going to be part of the project?

01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:26.000
Or that cost could be incurred by the owner

01:24:26.000 --> 01:24:32.000
of the trailer that has to use a service.

01:24:32.000 --> 01:24:37.000
And that's a very important issue that we have to have cost at part of this conversion project.

01:24:37.000 --> 01:24:42.000
It's all going to be part of the project to install. And I know the design is yet to come out.

01:24:42.000 --> 01:24:46.000
I think you will see it when it comes.

01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:48.000
But that's a very important

01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:49.000
Extremely important point.

01:24:49.000 --> 01:24:53.000
of who's going to incur that cost

01:24:53.000 --> 01:24:57.000
And that's the construction world, that's called a point of connection.

01:24:57.000 --> 01:25:01.000
And that's also a metering point.

01:25:01.000 --> 01:25:05.000
And that's just usually the

01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:07.000
point of connection is the fee

01:25:07.000 --> 01:25:08.000
that the county asked

01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:12.000
the owner to pay for.

01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:15.000
Are we going to be paid for it from the ownership?

01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:21.000
Or is that part of the project? Please confirm and advise.

01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:24.000
Thank you.

01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:29.000
Any other public comment in chambers?

01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:34.000
See none, Kathy. Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

01:25:34.000 --> 01:25:36.000
Too quick there. That's okay.

01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:45.000
I'm a little slow, sorry. I would just like to ask the council, this is Christina Pendergraft again.

01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:55.000
With all of the updates and everything to the system and with the county bearing most of the cost from what I understand.

01:25:55.000 --> 01:25:58.000
I just want to make sure that none of that

01:25:58.000 --> 01:26:06.000
still trickles down to the residents. And if it does have to, that there's a communication with that for us.

01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:11.000
with the infrastructure upgrade.

01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:15.000
That's it. Thank you so much. Thank you.

01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:19.000
Other comment?

01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:22.000
And Kathy, you don't have anybody online? Okay.

01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:24.000
Thank you. We'll come back to the board.

01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:30.000
I don't believe anybody has said anything about the county bearing most of the cost here.

01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:34.000
Right now, this is uh

01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:37.000
Yes. Project.

01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:40.000
And there's

01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:48.000
Lots of issues remaining on that side of things.

01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:52.000
Other questions or comments?

01:26:52.000 --> 01:26:54.000
Okay, Clay, thank you for the presentation.

01:26:54.000 --> 01:26:58.000
That completes that item.

01:26:58.000 --> 01:27:02.000
The last item on our agenda

01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:04.000
is…

01:27:04.000 --> 01:27:08.000
has to do with the board self-evaluation

01:27:08.000 --> 01:27:14.000
I'll ask the board whether you want to take a breather here at seven o'clock.

01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:17.000
Okay, we'll take…

01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:21.000
Let's try to get back here by five after if we can.

01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:25.000
So we can get people out of here as quickly as we can tonight. Thank you everyone for coming this evening.

01:27:25.000 --> 01:27:36.000
And I'm sure it isn't the last time that we'll be communicating, but I hope it's not the last time that there is communication.

01:27:36.000 --> 01:27:38.000
But, uh.

01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:45.000
Thanks for coming this evening. And again, please travel safely.

01:27:56.000 --> 01:28:26.000
Darling and Jen people there.

01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:53.000
Are you with us, back with us?

01:29:57.000 --> 01:30:05.000
There's other topics.

01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:12.000
Let's recess until we get…

01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:13.000
Yeah, I'm sorry I've been here. I couldn't hear before. It was kind of muffled.

01:30:13.000 --> 01:30:16.000
Okay.

01:30:16.000 --> 01:30:17.000
I haven't.

01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:20.000
All right. I don't know what happened, but anyway, we're back now so we'll

01:30:20.000 --> 01:30:22.000
We'll go back into session again.

01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:28.000
This is our annual self-evaluation.

01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:34.000
And first, I'd like to apologize for the rather late and distribution of the survey.

01:30:34.000 --> 01:30:36.000
I didn't realize that that

01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:40.000
needed to go out a week or two ahead of when it did.

01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:45.000
And when I did, we didn't have much time left before this meeting.

01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:52.000
So I apologize to everyone and apologies. And I do appreciate everybody who did scramble and respond.

01:30:52.000 --> 01:30:56.000
Let's see, was it?

01:30:56.000 --> 01:31:03.000
We had, I think we had, what, nine people responded, something like that. Seven. Seven, okay.

01:31:03.000 --> 01:31:06.000
And we don't know who those are.

01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:09.000
Because it went out to

01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:12.000
The voting members of the board, non-voting members of the board.

01:31:12.000 --> 01:31:15.000
a couple of other counselors and a number of staff members.

01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:23.000
And we just don't know. What I propose to do here, I mean, you've all had this to read.

01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:29.000
is that we go through the questions and simply stop at those that

01:31:29.000 --> 01:31:32.000
require or somebody wants to discuss further.

01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:36.000
And if we

01:31:36.000 --> 01:31:39.000
And something that I would think would be helpful

01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:43.000
Instead of just going through and saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:43.000 --> 01:31:49.000
We keep track of those items that we think might be worthy of some further discussion.

01:31:49.000 --> 01:31:53.000
In other words, actually maybe trying to do something about some of the

01:31:53.000 --> 01:31:55.000
areas that are areas that

01:31:55.000 --> 01:31:58.000
not everybody thinks you're really strong.

01:31:58.000 --> 01:32:04.000
So hopefully it's not everything, but we may wind up with a list of items for

01:32:04.000 --> 01:32:10.000
further attention. Does that sound like a reasonable thing to do?

01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:16.000
Okay, that being the case, we will start.

01:32:16.000 --> 01:32:19.000
It's page 48 of our agenda doc.

01:32:19.000 --> 01:32:22.000
And…

01:32:22.000 --> 01:32:25.000
I saw in the second question there

01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:30.000
Do all board members participate in a formal orientation

01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:32.000
And, uh.

01:32:32.000 --> 01:32:34.000
22% of respondents said no.

01:32:34.000 --> 01:32:42.000
But I'd like to ask Matt and Jen, who are new members, whether you felt like you got adequate orientation or not.

01:32:42.000 --> 01:32:46.000
And it's fair to say no if the answer is no.

01:32:46.000 --> 01:32:49.000
We'll start with

01:32:49.000 --> 01:32:55.000
Matt, since he's here. Sure. I think there's always room for improvement, but I think I caught the

01:32:55.000 --> 01:33:00.000
new employee orientation. And that was fantastic. That was really helpful. And then, you know, I've talked

01:33:00.000 --> 01:33:12.000
sort of one-on-one. I'm still getting up to speed so more would be better, but balancing that with time. So I think I put, yes, I felt like there was formal and there was enough, there was sufficient.

01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:17.000
As long as you give me the first year to get up to speed. Well, you're getting up to speed pretty darn fast.

01:33:17.000 --> 01:33:21.000
Part of it is we're aiming the fire hose at you but

01:33:21.000 --> 01:33:24.000
You're doing a great job in that regard.

01:33:24.000 --> 01:33:29.000
I remember when I was first on the board, the kind of the conventional wisdom was

01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:31.000
It took new board members a couple of years to get up to speed.

01:33:31.000 --> 01:33:33.000
I'm still trying.

01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:38.000
Anyway, Jen.

01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:39.000
Anika?

01:33:39.000 --> 01:33:43.000
Yeah, I would agree. I don't know if I would call it formal as yet, but

01:33:43.000 --> 01:33:47.000
There's certainly plenty of opportunities to sit down

01:33:47.000 --> 01:33:53.000
With Philo, with Robert, et cetera. And that's been much appreciated very helpful

01:33:53.000 --> 01:34:00.000
And not just in a sit down conversational way, but also in writing and back and forth Q&A.

01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:06.000
So I have felt I've had plenty of opportunity to and been encouraged to

01:34:06.000 --> 01:34:14.000
reach out and learn as quickly as possible. Also, I noticed that there's going to be an upcoming

01:34:14.000 --> 01:34:22.000
DPU orientation. So I plan to, I believe that was in January. So I plan to attend that.

01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:24.000
or so I should be able to so

01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:29.000
That would constitute more of a formal situation, I assume.

01:34:29.000 --> 01:34:31.000
Okay, thank you.

01:34:31.000 --> 01:34:45.000
There was one comment on the page. It's the link the board meeting is appropriate. Somebody answered no. That presumably means you would like more like longer meetings, right?

01:34:45.000 --> 01:34:49.000
Okay.

01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:53.000
Next item.

01:34:53.000 --> 01:34:55.000
Page 50.

01:34:55.000 --> 01:35:00.000
On the questions at the top of the page there, there was

01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:05.000
Apparently one answer on both of those that said seldom

01:35:05.000 --> 01:35:07.000
Is there anybody who would like to comment on that?

01:35:07.000 --> 01:35:14.000
beyond what the board is one-sided and only represents a portion of the county.

01:35:14.000 --> 01:35:16.000
Is that all related?

01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:19.000
Must be I'm looking for page 50.

01:35:19.000 --> 01:35:26.000
Yeah, is this accountability, does the board understand its obligation? Yeah. Okay.

01:35:26.000 --> 01:35:29.000
accountability is that the pit we're on page 50 that's correct.

01:35:29.000 --> 01:35:31.000
Okay.

01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:39.000
let's see, does the board understand its obligations

01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:44.000
And what was your question, Chair Gibson? Well, basically…

01:35:44.000 --> 01:35:46.000
there's somebody who doesn't think

01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:53.000
who says only seldom does the board understand its obligations or act with diligence objectivity.

01:35:53.000 --> 01:36:02.000
Okay, so I guess I'd like to understand that if I can without spending a lot of time on it. Right. I'm thinking that I said that and um

01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:07.000
what I feel like a lot of times, and I said this somewhere in here also, I think that

01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:09.000
the board seems to

01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:12.000
not really…

01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:17.000
represent the entire cross-section of Los Alamos county

01:36:17.000 --> 01:36:20.000
And there's a lot of talk about

01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:21.000
wanting to fulfill

01:36:21.000 --> 01:36:24.000
county councils

01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:27.000
goals, but…

01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:29.000
I don't hear…

01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:31.000
concern for the customers so

01:36:31.000 --> 01:36:37.000
In terms of, for example, natural gas hookups, we're looking for ways to

01:36:37.000 --> 01:36:40.000
not hook up new buildings, but

01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:42.000
What if the customer

01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:48.000
needs natural gas, does he have a choice to and are we listening to our customers and so that's a

01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:53.000
That's the root of that statement.

01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:58.000
Okay.

01:36:58.000 --> 01:37:06.000
is that something that you think we need to just put on the list to come back to at another time?

01:37:06.000 --> 01:37:09.000
We can. I'd like to, yes, board, thank you um

01:37:09.000 --> 01:37:14.000
I think, you know, we've mentioned some surveys more

01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:19.000
Surveys are very, very difficult to write because of the way the questions are worded.

01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:22.000
And so I think…

01:37:22.000 --> 01:37:25.000
I thought.

01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:28.000
I know getting out in the community, I thought maybe having a table at Smith's

01:37:28.000 --> 01:37:34.000
you know, maybe asking people or the park, something like that and

01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:36.000
somehow having

01:37:36.000 --> 01:37:40.000
conversations with community and

01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:42.000
getting more of a cross-section of how our

01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:44.000
customers really feel.

01:37:44.000 --> 01:37:55.000
Okay.

01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:58.000
Okay, the next page.

01:37:58.000 --> 01:37:59.000
is responsibility

01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:04.000
And I see that

01:38:04.000 --> 01:38:07.000
Not everybody was on the high end of that one either.

01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:09.000
that there's…

01:38:09.000 --> 01:38:11.000
Several responses that say

01:38:11.000 --> 01:38:16.000
Sometimes board members understand their roles and sometimes we understand

01:38:16.000 --> 01:38:19.000
the difference between policy and management.

01:38:19.000 --> 01:38:26.000
And in one case, there was even a seldom response to that.

01:38:26.000 --> 01:38:31.000
Does anyone want to address that further?

01:38:31.000 --> 01:38:36.000
And you don't feel obligated, but if you do, here's the time.

01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:40.000
Actually, Chair Gibson, I just have a question actually about the last

01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:42.000
One.

01:38:42.000 --> 01:38:43.000
Huh?

01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:49.000
So there was a two-part question. The first part referred to utility customers and citizens of the county

01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:52.000
The second part referred to utility customers

01:38:52.000 --> 01:39:02.000
and the county. It was an intentional distinction between citizens of the county and the county in the top and bottom of that question.

01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:03.000
Okay. Yeah, I just…

01:39:03.000 --> 01:39:07.000
I doubt it. We didn't write the question, but…

01:39:07.000 --> 01:39:10.000
I mean…

01:39:10.000 --> 01:39:14.000
And the reason I'm asking is why I wasn't trying to differentiate

01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:18.000
too much between customers and citizens.

01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:24.000
And then because yeah we were just discussing, you know, so there might be um

01:39:24.000 --> 01:39:33.000
an agenda or ideas coming from the county council, I think the suggestion was that

01:39:33.000 --> 01:39:36.000
Is that at odds perhaps with what customers might want?

01:39:36.000 --> 01:39:38.000
So.

01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:43.000
the distinction, you know, in the wording here might have relevance.

01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:46.000
Or maybe it should be clarified if

01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:50.000
Anyway, if we care to do that, but also

01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:54.000
you know i guess the county council, of course, is acting on behalf of the citizens

01:39:54.000 --> 01:39:58.000
too in their role as counselors so presumably

01:39:58.000 --> 01:40:01.000
the activities that we might support as a board

01:40:01.000 --> 01:40:04.000
on their behalf.

01:40:04.000 --> 01:40:09.000
are in line with what the county wants largely.

01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:15.000
So just a comment there.

01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:16.000
Sorry if that wasn't clear. I haven't had much

01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:18.000
Okay, and…

01:40:18.000 --> 01:40:19.000
By the way, when it comes to the

01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:25.000
the major environmental goals, the board implemented though established those

01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:26.000
Yeah.

01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:30.000
well before the council did in both cases, council kind of followed our lead on that or previous board's lead

01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:31.000
um the

01:40:31.000 --> 01:40:41.000
Yeah, I guess my question. I don't see this as antagonistic perhaps as what was suggested a moment ago

01:40:41.000 --> 01:40:42.000
I think we're all kind of working towards

01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:44.000
Sorry, we're barely hearing you.

01:40:44.000 --> 01:40:49.000
Oh, okay. That's funny. Yeah. Okay. That's all right. Sorry.

01:40:49.000 --> 01:40:52.000
Not important.

01:40:52.000 --> 01:40:56.000
I guess I don't review it as antagonistic. That's all I'm saying. And I think

01:40:56.000 --> 01:40:57.000
Oh, okay.

01:40:57.000 --> 01:41:00.000
Yes.

01:41:00.000 --> 01:41:01.000
All right.

01:41:01.000 --> 01:41:05.000
So I would view these as being synergistic and not as at odds with each other.

01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:07.000
Okay.

01:41:07.000 --> 01:41:09.000
pleased to answer as all are most of the time.

01:41:09.000 --> 01:41:13.000
Oh, right.

01:41:13.000 --> 01:41:18.000
someone asked or put the comment or the question in under additional comments. Who's the board responsible to?

01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:20.000
County Council, the Charter, the ratepayers.

01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:22.000
This isn't well understood.

01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:28.000
I think the simple answer to that question is.

01:41:28.000 --> 01:41:31.000
we're responsible to all of those in some respects

01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:35.000
When we do need to remember with respect to the council

01:41:35.000 --> 01:41:40.000
The term I always use is semi-autonomous

01:41:40.000 --> 01:41:45.000
You know, we have a different relationship through the charter

01:41:45.000 --> 01:41:49.000
to the council than basically the rest of the county government does.

01:41:49.000 --> 01:41:54.000
And we can go into that more at some time if anybody

01:41:54.000 --> 01:41:57.000
feels the necessity to.

01:41:57.000 --> 01:42:00.000
Moving on, policy direction.

01:42:00.000 --> 01:42:04.000
Again, we had a small number of responses that

01:42:04.000 --> 01:42:06.000
said, uh.

01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:13.000
Does the board spend appropriate time on policy consideration and direction versus operational issues

01:42:13.000 --> 01:42:17.000
and there's

01:42:17.000 --> 01:42:21.000
a couple of responses that said sometimes and one that said seldom

01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:29.000
And there's an additional comment, mission and goals are in contradiction to the charter

01:42:29.000 --> 01:42:35.000
So if anyone would like to comment on that further.

01:42:35.000 --> 01:42:37.000
You're welcome to.

01:42:37.000 --> 01:42:43.000
And if not, we'll move on. I think, thank you, Chair Gibson.

01:42:43.000 --> 01:42:44.000
I get confused at

01:42:44.000 --> 01:42:50.000
what we do versus what is in our charter because like for example when

01:42:50.000 --> 01:42:57.000
And you know me and the whole profit transfer thing. If we don't have a profit and yet we're still

01:42:57.000 --> 01:42:59.000
having a profit transfer

01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:03.000
that gets really, really confusing.

01:43:03.000 --> 01:43:06.000
And I look at the Chapter 5 and I look at the

01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:10.000
the sequence of

01:43:10.000 --> 01:43:16.000
how we're supposed to distribute money and this, that, the other thing. And it is also a little confusing because

01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:17.000
When I ask questions.

01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:21.000
my understanding is my understanding is

01:43:21.000 --> 01:43:23.000
that the words have different definitions. And so I think maybe some

01:43:23.000 --> 01:43:31.000
sometime maybe in a future meeting, we could just simply spend some time going over our section five and

01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:35.000
And educating the board as to what it really means.

01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:44.000
Karen, are you going to attempt to give a short answer? I was going to make a very, very short answer.

01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:49.000
The profit transfer that is discussed, which is really a revenue transfer, not profit.

01:43:49.000 --> 01:43:53.000
When you look at it in

01:43:53.000 --> 01:43:56.000
the charter.

01:43:56.000 --> 01:44:02.000
you have to look at the associated ordinance that was passed by council that addresses how it will be applied.

01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:08.000
And there's a number of things in the charter where because it is

01:44:08.000 --> 01:44:10.000
left a little bit ambiguous

01:44:10.000 --> 01:44:14.000
I think on purpose there than our ordinances passed by

01:44:14.000 --> 01:44:19.000
council that address and clarify how it'll be applied.

01:44:19.000 --> 01:44:26.000
So I just wanted to point out that that ordinance does exist and I'm happy to come. I'll actually be bringing you the profit transfer in January to

01:44:26.000 --> 01:44:29.000
forward to council.

01:44:29.000 --> 01:44:32.000
And I'll be happy to do a little broader

01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:37.000
explanation of how that works. Right. And I appreciate that. And you've explained that to me before. I'm just

01:44:37.000 --> 01:44:44.000
I have a problem with words and it wouldn't it be just really wonderful if we could just

01:44:44.000 --> 01:44:51.000
edit that phrase. But then I've also been, it's also been explained to me that that would

01:44:51.000 --> 01:44:53.000
take an act of Congress or something like that.

01:44:53.000 --> 01:44:58.000
have to go to the whole public. And so we're left with what

01:44:58.000 --> 01:45:01.000
we're left with, it just gets confusing because

01:45:01.000 --> 01:45:06.000
You know, we redefine words and

01:45:06.000 --> 01:45:14.000
It's just tough. That's all. The ordinance lays it out and we do have the practice that has been in place for many, many years.

01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:16.000
that I think can help.

01:45:16.000 --> 01:45:33.000
explain what's happening. Well, and I'm an electrical engineer in the electrical world is full of it. I think that really didn't sound good. We're like the worst people in terms of slang.

01:45:33.000 --> 01:45:34.000
and using wrong words.

01:45:34.000 --> 01:45:38.000
So this is my world and so i'm

01:45:38.000 --> 01:45:45.000
The word profit is unfortunate because it has never been a profit transfer. Right. And that's my problem is I get stuck.

01:45:45.000 --> 01:45:50.000
on that. And I'm like, how can this be?

01:45:50.000 --> 01:45:54.000
I just would maybe another presentation of the charter

01:45:54.000 --> 01:45:55.000
in a future meeting

01:45:55.000 --> 01:45:58.000
And actually kind of go through it and

01:45:58.000 --> 01:46:04.000
I'd be happy to bring that back when we bring the profit transfer. And I'm not talking about that one.

01:46:04.000 --> 01:46:11.000
thing, but just like the five yeah okay the order of how we do the order of disbursements.

01:46:11.000 --> 01:46:14.000
And that's why we have the reserves that we have in that whole

01:46:14.000 --> 01:46:19.000
document that you see that walks through how to set the reserves, that's all tied to

01:46:19.000 --> 01:46:24.000
what's in the charter for how we have to do our budgets, as well as what

01:46:24.000 --> 01:46:25.000
can remain to go to

01:46:25.000 --> 01:46:33.000
the general fund or for the council to let us bring back into utilities.

01:46:33.000 --> 01:46:36.000
That would be great. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.

01:46:36.000 --> 01:46:40.000
All right. Anything else on this page?

01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:43.000
Move on to monitoring.

01:46:43.000 --> 01:46:47.000
And again, we seem to have some concerns

01:46:47.000 --> 01:46:58.000
Are there systems for modifying policy, procedures, processes, and priorities? Boy, a good bureaucrat wrote that one. When the department's organizational performance does not meet standards

01:46:58.000 --> 01:47:04.000
And then, uh.

01:47:04.000 --> 01:47:09.000
Someone said, I wasn't sure on this question and don't know it wasn't an option, so chose sometimes.

01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:17.000
If anyone would like to say anything about this one, fine, or we'll move on.

01:47:17.000 --> 01:47:28.000
Chair Gibson, I think that was actually what that previous conversation was about. It kind of looks like it. It does, doesn't it? Because, yeah, we would really love to modify the policy or procedure

01:47:28.000 --> 01:47:30.000
To make it kinder and gentler.

01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:34.000
But it's tough to do that.

01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:38.000
Okay, so we don't have any…

01:47:38.000 --> 01:47:40.000
follow on issues there.

01:47:40.000 --> 01:47:46.000
Then we get to communications and advocacy on page 54.

01:47:46.000 --> 01:47:49.000
And there's a whole bunch of

01:47:49.000 --> 01:47:52.000
folks who flagged folks who

01:47:52.000 --> 01:47:55.000
On every question sometimes

01:47:55.000 --> 01:47:57.000
or in one case, seldom.

01:47:57.000 --> 01:48:03.000
I don't think it's any big surprise that this is probably an issue.

01:48:03.000 --> 01:48:06.000
do we need to have a

01:48:06.000 --> 01:48:14.000
a board discussion at some point about communication and advocacy.

01:48:14.000 --> 01:48:20.000
I think so. One of the problems here with the first question is the word entire.

01:48:20.000 --> 01:48:26.000
Does the board strive to represent the interests of the entire community it serves? Well, that's interesting.

01:48:26.000 --> 01:48:27.000
Does it strive to

01:48:27.000 --> 01:48:31.000
represent the interests of the community it serves. Well, yeah, sure it does.

01:48:31.000 --> 01:48:36.000
the entire community, that's kind of lofty.

01:48:36.000 --> 01:48:42.000
I'm not sure anyone could do that.

01:48:42.000 --> 01:48:45.000
But yes, I think we need to address this.

01:48:45.000 --> 01:48:54.000
Thank you. Okay.

01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:59.000
All right, page 55.

01:48:59.000 --> 01:49:01.000
I'm guessing i'm guessing

01:49:01.000 --> 01:49:05.000
that the only issue there

01:49:05.000 --> 01:49:07.000
is by one person whom

01:49:07.000 --> 01:49:14.000
might have already raised questions about acting within guidelines set by charter and procedures document.

01:49:14.000 --> 01:49:21.000
Correct? Yes, sir. Do we need to discuss it any further right now? No, Chair Gibson. Okay. Thank you.

01:49:21.000 --> 01:49:26.000
And…

01:49:26.000 --> 01:49:36.000
56, again, we took. Again, it talks about profit transfer and franchise tax, etc.

01:49:36.000 --> 01:49:44.000
there's a comment, members of the public typically come to council meetings to oppose rate increases

01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:46.000
So clear support

01:49:46.000 --> 01:49:49.000
from the BPU would be appreciated

01:49:49.000 --> 01:49:54.000
In addition to DPU staff presenting.

01:49:54.000 --> 01:49:59.000
And the reason that jumped out at me is that

01:49:59.000 --> 01:50:05.000
at least until the board acts and recommends a rate change.

01:50:05.000 --> 01:50:09.000
It isn't our job to completely support it. It's our job to

01:50:09.000 --> 01:50:12.000
critically review it and decide about it.

01:50:12.000 --> 01:50:14.000
I hope that's

01:50:14.000 --> 01:50:18.000
appreciated and understood.

01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:21.000
At least that's the way I look at it. If anybody has a different viewpoint.

01:50:21.000 --> 01:50:25.000
we should talk about it.

01:50:25.000 --> 01:50:32.000
you know once we once we as a board have acted on something and present it to

01:50:32.000 --> 01:50:35.000
Council, that's a different story.

01:50:35.000 --> 01:50:42.000
Then, of course, our support does need to be expressed in the appropriate way in the appropriate time.

01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:46.000
Just by acting on it, that expresses our support. Sometimes that needs to be

01:50:46.000 --> 01:50:51.000
elaborated upon.

01:50:51.000 --> 01:50:56.000
Anything further on that page, page 56?

01:50:56.000 --> 01:50:59.000
All right.

01:50:59.000 --> 01:51:05.000
Page 57.

01:51:05.000 --> 01:51:09.000
I don't think there's anything there that we really

01:51:09.000 --> 01:51:15.000
you need to talk about. Does anyone think anyone think differently

01:51:15.000 --> 01:51:23.000
Moving on to 58.

01:51:23.000 --> 01:51:28.000
There's a question in the middle, is there a succession plan for the utilities manager?

01:51:28.000 --> 01:51:31.000
With exposure to the board of possible successors.

01:51:31.000 --> 01:51:39.000
Two-thirds of the respondents thought there was, and one third thought there was not.

01:51:39.000 --> 01:51:43.000
Does anyone want to

01:51:43.000 --> 01:51:48.000
Discuss that further either here or

01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:54.000
a topic for later discussion.

01:51:54.000 --> 01:51:57.000
So I don't think we don't have a formal

01:51:57.000 --> 01:51:59.000
succession plan.

01:51:59.000 --> 01:52:01.000
We have a lot of really good deputies.

01:52:01.000 --> 01:52:05.000
and

01:52:05.000 --> 01:52:07.000
But I don't know that we have

01:52:07.000 --> 01:52:11.000
established anything formal or the department has anything formal

01:52:11.000 --> 01:52:17.000
Is that a correct understanding?

01:52:17.000 --> 01:52:19.000
Yeah, Chair.

01:52:19.000 --> 01:52:21.000
plan for succession plan

01:52:21.000 --> 01:52:27.000
with staff retirements, we did do the budgeting each year to

01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:31.000
do some overfills so we can have a smoother transition.

01:52:31.000 --> 01:52:36.000
And I do agree with you. We have excellent qualified deputies that

01:52:36.000 --> 01:52:40.000
could step into so

01:52:40.000 --> 01:52:54.000
But I mean, this refers to a succession plan for you. We don't expect you to leave anytime in the near future. No, sir. But if Juan didn't clean the roads very well, who knows who's going to hit you on the way home tonight.

01:52:54.000 --> 01:52:59.000
And it's all his fault. The…

01:52:59.000 --> 01:53:05.000
But things can happen and the short term is one thing and long term is something else.

01:53:05.000 --> 01:53:08.000
Yes.

01:53:08.000 --> 01:53:10.000
Sure, Gibson, I have a quick question.

01:53:10.000 --> 01:53:11.000
Sure. Go ahead, Jen.

01:53:11.000 --> 01:53:17.000
Yeah, sorry, just curious. So are all positions, whether leadership or staff.

01:53:17.000 --> 01:53:25.000
public or sorry, publicly competed i mean

01:53:25.000 --> 01:53:26.000
not necessarily

01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:28.000
a succession within the department.

01:53:28.000 --> 01:53:32.000
How does that work?

01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:35.000
Well, there's two different processes

01:53:35.000 --> 01:53:37.000
uh you know the board hires

01:53:37.000 --> 01:53:39.000
the utility manager.

01:53:39.000 --> 01:53:41.000
Yeah.

01:53:41.000 --> 01:53:47.000
And the first decision that a board makes when we're looking at hiring

01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:52.000
is do we advertise externally?

01:53:52.000 --> 01:53:57.000
Or do we advertise internally, meaning within the county?

01:53:57.000 --> 01:53:58.000
uh…

01:53:58.000 --> 01:54:00.000
Yeah, I guess that's and is it always externally or is it discretion

01:54:00.000 --> 01:54:04.000
It's at the discretion of the board. We can do either one.

01:54:04.000 --> 01:54:05.000
Okay.

01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:09.000
Most of the time we have gone external, even though we've wound up

01:54:09.000 --> 01:54:14.000
most of the time hiring an internal applicant.

01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:15.000
Okay.

01:54:15.000 --> 01:54:16.000
That's most of the time we have had

01:54:16.000 --> 01:54:21.000
one utility manager who came from the outside.

01:54:21.000 --> 01:54:24.000
The, uh.

01:54:24.000 --> 01:54:27.000
all the others in

01:54:27.000 --> 01:54:30.000
at least since the 1980s anyway, have been uh

01:54:30.000 --> 01:54:34.000
people who are already in the department.

01:54:34.000 --> 01:54:35.000
Yeah.

01:54:35.000 --> 01:54:37.000
But that's a board choice. Now, when you go to the staff.

01:54:37.000 --> 01:54:41.000
I'll let Philo answer that question because

01:54:41.000 --> 01:54:46.000
That's all in a whole different process.

01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:50.000
Sure. When it comes to

01:54:50.000 --> 01:54:53.000
you know interviewing and hiring

01:54:53.000 --> 01:54:56.000
It is a combination of

01:54:56.000 --> 01:54:58.000
We could post it internally or

01:54:58.000 --> 01:55:02.000
advertise for it externally.

01:55:02.000 --> 01:55:04.000
And it really depends on

01:55:04.000 --> 01:55:12.000
If we have the qualified applicants. One thing that I think is great about the county is

01:55:12.000 --> 01:55:17.000
Any internal candidate that qualifies for the position that's advertised.

01:55:17.000 --> 01:55:18.000
Okay.

01:55:18.000 --> 01:55:19.000
gets an interview so they do

01:55:19.000 --> 01:55:21.000
get looked at and get looked at

01:55:21.000 --> 01:55:28.000
I think you'll see that that's been the past practice of recruitment. I went through two recruitments

01:55:28.000 --> 01:55:31.000
Before I became the utilities manager.

01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:36.000
And qualified both times but the uh

01:55:36.000 --> 01:55:42.000
That's our process with the county. So anyone that's qualified

01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:46.000
We'll get an interview for consideration.

01:55:46.000 --> 01:55:48.000
Now, when it comes to external

01:55:48.000 --> 01:55:53.000
applicants, you're looking at resumes and

01:55:53.000 --> 01:55:55.000
It's a little subject to

01:55:55.000 --> 01:56:00.000
what's on their paper so you don't necessarily know

01:56:00.000 --> 01:56:03.000
how qualified an individual is so

01:56:03.000 --> 01:56:06.000
But we've had great success in

01:56:06.000 --> 01:56:09.000
promoting people from within

01:56:09.000 --> 01:56:12.000
And I also…

01:56:12.000 --> 01:56:18.000
I think with our entry level employees, when we can hire and train them.

01:56:18.000 --> 01:56:20.000
through our mission, vision, values and

01:56:20.000 --> 01:56:23.000
You know, our culture

01:56:23.000 --> 01:56:26.000
We've had more success in

01:56:26.000 --> 01:56:30.000
doing internal promotions versus trying to hire external and

01:56:30.000 --> 01:56:35.000
And train and go through the whole relocation assistance, et cetera.

01:56:35.000 --> 01:56:42.000
Okay, thank you.

01:56:42.000 --> 01:56:44.000
Any other questions or issues on this page?

01:56:44.000 --> 01:56:50.000
Page 58.

01:56:50.000 --> 01:56:55.000
seeing none

01:56:55.000 --> 01:57:01.000
See, I don't see any issues on 59.

01:57:01.000 --> 01:57:04.000
And then we get to page…

01:57:04.000 --> 01:57:11.000
60 which were getting into the more general questions about

01:57:11.000 --> 01:57:13.000
What did we accomplish? What didn't we, et cetera?

01:57:13.000 --> 01:57:19.000
you can read all of those.

01:57:19.000 --> 01:57:27.000
Are there specific ones that anyone would like to discuss starting on page 60?

01:57:27.000 --> 01:57:39.000
I thought the weeds were the responsibility of Parks and recreation.

01:57:39.000 --> 01:57:45.000
Noted.

01:57:45.000 --> 01:57:48.000
Okay.

01:57:48.000 --> 01:57:53.000
If there aren't any, we'll move on to page 61.

01:57:53.000 --> 01:57:58.000
Same question. Is there anything there that

01:57:58.000 --> 01:58:07.000
We wouldn't need to discuss here or might want to discuss further in more detail later.

01:58:07.000 --> 01:58:10.000
I'm not hearing anything which

01:58:10.000 --> 01:58:13.000
may mean it's either too late

01:58:13.000 --> 01:58:18.000
Or people are happy with what was said here or what's going on.

01:58:18.000 --> 01:58:21.000
I would like to ask

01:58:21.000 --> 01:58:25.000
a question at the tail end of this and that is

01:58:25.000 --> 01:58:28.000
is this basic process

01:58:28.000 --> 01:58:32.000
that we're going through. That's what we're calling our annual self-evaluation.

01:58:32.000 --> 01:58:37.000
Is that a sound process? Fill out the questionnaire.

01:58:37.000 --> 01:58:38.000
talk about the questionnaire at a work session.

01:58:38.000 --> 01:58:42.000
And then…

01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:46.000
We formally adopt it at our regular next regular meeting

01:58:46.000 --> 01:58:50.000
That usually doesn't take very long.

01:58:50.000 --> 01:58:57.000
Is that basic process a good one? Is there a better way of doing things? Is it efficient use of people's time?

01:58:57.000 --> 01:59:01.000
And that's

01:59:01.000 --> 01:59:06.000
If you want to think about that and come back at the regular meeting to answer that question.

01:59:06.000 --> 01:59:09.000
That's fine but

01:59:09.000 --> 01:59:11.000
We're always trying to figure out how to do things better if this is good.

01:59:11.000 --> 01:59:19.000
good enough fine and if there's a better way of doing it, we can certainly think about it.

01:59:19.000 --> 01:59:24.000
Eric. Yeah, thank you gibson. You know, actually, I think it is valuable. I think it's

01:59:24.000 --> 01:59:28.000
It's beneficial to do this.

01:59:28.000 --> 01:59:41.000
I think sometimes it's difficult because some of the answers aren't available. Like if the answers are yes, no, but I really need an answer, I have no idea or or it doesn't apply or

01:59:41.000 --> 01:59:48.000
something. You want a not applicable or don't know or something? Don't know, something like that. So it would be really nice to be able

01:59:48.000 --> 01:59:51.000
maybe get go through the template of the survey

01:59:51.000 --> 01:59:53.000
And maybe just massage it a little bit.

01:59:53.000 --> 02:00:02.000
I was frustrated because I don't know if this only happened to me, but I had to sign in. I had to create an account

02:00:02.000 --> 02:00:04.000
to take this survey and i'm like

02:00:04.000 --> 02:00:09.000
I don't want to create an account. I almost didn't take the survey.

02:00:09.000 --> 02:00:12.000
Because of that. So if we could

02:00:12.000 --> 02:00:16.000
create a survey that didn't require accounts, that would be great.

02:00:16.000 --> 02:00:19.000
Yeah, I have the same aversion to creating

02:00:19.000 --> 02:00:24.000
Yet another account someplace with another password. Yeah.

02:00:24.000 --> 02:00:27.000
Yeah, exactly. Thank you.

02:00:27.000 --> 02:00:34.000
I just say I second all that, I think. I think it is a good process. I think it's good to see each other's comments and talk through it quickly.

02:00:34.000 --> 02:00:41.000
But I think, yeah, a few massages to the questions and adding a few options would be good.

02:00:41.000 --> 02:00:45.000
I'm wondering if we might need a

02:00:45.000 --> 02:00:51.000
working group, since we can't call it subcommittee anymore to

02:00:51.000 --> 02:00:53.000
Do that.

02:00:53.000 --> 02:00:58.000
We can talk about that at the next meeting.

02:00:58.000 --> 02:01:00.000
Okay, let's see.

02:01:00.000 --> 02:01:07.000
I guess I should ask for public comment on the board self-evaluation since we're

02:01:07.000 --> 02:01:10.000
Since it's on the agenda, is there any public comment?

02:01:10.000 --> 02:01:14.000
Chair Gibson, could I just say a couple things, just one or two things before we go to the public?

02:01:14.000 --> 02:01:16.000
Sure.

02:01:16.000 --> 02:01:18.000
Sure. So

02:01:18.000 --> 02:01:21.000
I agree with what

02:01:21.000 --> 02:01:28.000
Eric and Matt said, and you said as well, I heartily agree about

02:01:28.000 --> 02:01:31.000
Not doing yet another account.

02:01:31.000 --> 02:01:39.000
That's all good. I do feel like it was very pro forma. I've done it now, I don't know what, three times or something like that. And I've always felt like it's quite

02:01:39.000 --> 02:01:42.000
pro forma and it's

02:01:42.000 --> 02:01:48.000
And it's got whatever 50 whatever questions on it.

02:01:48.000 --> 02:01:53.000
I think it'd be better if we had a much more focused method, whether it's a survey or

02:01:53.000 --> 02:01:58.000
discussion that we lead ourselves or whatever. I don't really care that much about the format.

02:01:58.000 --> 02:02:03.000
be better. I think we had a much more focused effort on kind of the big things

02:02:03.000 --> 02:02:06.000
We want to really make sure that the board gets right

02:02:06.000 --> 02:02:09.000
you know, setting strategic direction or

02:02:09.000 --> 02:02:14.000
You know, making sure that the utility is well positioned for the future or

02:02:14.000 --> 02:02:22.000
you know, not interfering with the running of the department, whatever the big few things are

02:02:22.000 --> 02:02:26.000
I'd advocate for something that focused on those rather than the kind

02:02:26.000 --> 02:02:31.000
very broad sort of, again, in my view, sort of pro forma um

02:02:31.000 --> 02:02:33.000
survey too.

02:02:33.000 --> 02:02:37.000
Happy to discuss or debate with anyone.

02:02:37.000 --> 02:02:42.000
or engage in a conversation as to what's what's best, but I haven't been

02:02:42.000 --> 02:02:48.000
super excited about it. The whatever, I think three years that I've done it so

02:02:48.000 --> 02:02:51.000
Currently, does this kind of a survey

02:02:51.000 --> 02:02:53.000
help us maybe get to

02:02:53.000 --> 02:02:57.000
issues that we ought to focus more on.

02:02:57.000 --> 02:03:01.000
It's kind of what I was thinking in terms of asking

02:03:01.000 --> 02:03:02.000
of are there things

02:03:02.000 --> 02:03:06.000
that come up here that we ought to discuss further at some point.

02:03:06.000 --> 02:03:07.000
kind of as a screening tool almost

02:03:07.000 --> 02:03:09.000
Yeah, it's a good way of putting it.

02:03:09.000 --> 02:03:11.000
Yeah.

02:03:11.000 --> 02:03:16.000
It could, I think. I think it would be good if we sort of

02:03:16.000 --> 02:03:19.000
maybe had a critical, maybe we need a a

02:03:19.000 --> 02:03:22.000
Not a subcommittee working group, as you say, too.

02:03:22.000 --> 02:03:30.000
to review it and say, hey, can we get a sharper, more concise screening committee that's going to or screening survey or something that's going to

02:03:30.000 --> 02:03:35.000
surface some of the issues. That might be a good idea.

02:03:35.000 --> 02:03:36.000
Okay.

02:03:36.000 --> 02:03:37.000
So a comment.

02:03:37.000 --> 02:03:40.000
Is that all you had at the moment, Charlie?

02:03:40.000 --> 02:03:43.000
That's it for me, yeah.

02:03:43.000 --> 02:03:44.000
Did I hear Jen?

02:03:44.000 --> 02:03:52.000
Yeah, Chair Gibson, if you can hear me. You know, when I was getting ready to apply for this position, I actually looked at what I could find online

02:03:52.000 --> 02:03:58.000
from past surveys that the board has done and published.

02:03:58.000 --> 02:04:03.000
And I found it useful to help me kind of get familiarized with the board what

02:04:03.000 --> 02:04:08.000
you know their interests are, what their job paths are

02:04:08.000 --> 02:04:15.000
who their customers are. So it is a way to focus our attention on what's important

02:04:15.000 --> 02:04:24.000
And so given that it's potentially sort of important in that respect, it would be great if we could have a working group to try to refine it a little bit better.

02:04:24.000 --> 02:04:29.000
But what is the difference between, sorry, you alluded to a subcommittee not being allowed anymore but now

02:04:29.000 --> 02:04:31.000
We have working groups. I don't know.

02:04:31.000 --> 02:04:34.000
That's just a change in terminology.

02:04:34.000 --> 02:04:35.000
Okay, but we're so

02:04:35.000 --> 02:04:37.000
That came from the council.

02:04:37.000 --> 02:04:38.000
Okay, okay.

02:04:38.000 --> 02:04:40.000
I don't know what was behind it.

02:04:40.000 --> 02:04:41.000
Okay, working group.

02:04:41.000 --> 02:04:42.000
You want me to explain that? Sorry.

02:04:42.000 --> 02:04:43.000
Sure.

02:04:43.000 --> 02:04:44.000
Sure, yeah.

02:04:44.000 --> 02:04:49.000
Well, there is a difference. Subcommittees are held to the Open Meetings Act.

02:04:49.000 --> 02:04:52.000
And they're typically

02:04:52.000 --> 02:05:00.000
I mean, it's much more formal. Working groups can meet. It needs to be a subquorum of board members.

02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:05.000
to do that. And usually you don't make decisions per se, but you bring back

02:05:05.000 --> 02:05:13.000
recommendations to the full board on a topic. So it's a lot less formal. You don't have to have a scheduled

02:05:13.000 --> 02:05:21.000
agenda or anything like that, whereas subcommittees do. That's the basic difference in the two.

02:05:21.000 --> 02:05:22.000
Yeah.

02:05:22.000 --> 02:05:26.000
And that's why we did it. It just made it easier for the boards to form them.

02:05:26.000 --> 02:05:27.000
Thank you. That's very helpful.

02:05:27.000 --> 02:05:28.000
Sure.

02:05:28.000 --> 02:05:31.000
Yeah, that's and that's a change because we you know

02:05:31.000 --> 02:05:38.000
been on and seen a lot of subcommittees over the years that haven't

02:05:38.000 --> 02:05:39.000
you know since if they're subquorum

02:05:39.000 --> 02:05:42.000
of the main body that they don't have not felt that they were

02:05:42.000 --> 02:05:49.000
subject to OMA, LMA, but apparently that interpretation has changed.

02:05:49.000 --> 02:05:52.000
So now I understand why you changed the terminology.

02:05:52.000 --> 02:05:55.000
Thank you.

02:05:55.000 --> 02:06:04.000
Matt? Yeah, I was just going to react to what Charlie said about taking this three or four times. This is my first time through. So I found the breadth

02:06:04.000 --> 02:06:11.000
pretty good. It was a useful tool to help reflect on everything we're supposed to be doing and making sure we are

02:06:11.000 --> 02:06:16.000
So I'm not quite as jaded as Charlie yet. I'll get there soon, I guess. But I found the breadth useful, but I think

02:06:16.000 --> 02:06:22.000
as we've discussed a little bit, maybe as a screening tool and highlighting where we need to focus down is good.

02:06:22.000 --> 02:06:24.000
Okay.

02:06:24.000 --> 02:06:28.000
So I guess what I would like to suggest is uh

02:06:28.000 --> 02:06:30.000
that people think about this

02:06:30.000 --> 02:06:32.000
in the next two weeks.

02:06:32.000 --> 02:06:37.000
And because we will have an agenda item to approve this well approving

02:06:37.000 --> 02:06:45.000
This survey is, you know, that's pretty much just a rubber stamp, but I'd like to have a little discussion then of how can we

02:06:45.000 --> 02:06:47.000
How can we improve the process?

02:06:47.000 --> 02:06:49.000
And it may involve appointment of a working group

02:06:49.000 --> 02:06:56.000
So think about whether you want to be on that working group or not.

02:06:56.000 --> 02:06:59.000
And so we'll take up the

02:06:59.000 --> 02:07:01.000
What do we do in the future?

02:07:01.000 --> 02:07:02.000
at our next meeting two weeks from now.

02:07:02.000 --> 02:07:07.000
That sounds good. And I don't want Matt to get jaded.

02:07:07.000 --> 02:07:10.000
Counting on you, Matt.

02:07:10.000 --> 02:07:15.000
Okay. Anything else, folks?

02:07:15.000 --> 02:07:18.000
that being the case.

02:07:18.000 --> 02:07:23.000
Our last item is public comment for anything

02:07:23.000 --> 02:07:27.000
related to utilities.

02:07:27.000 --> 02:07:30.000
Okay, everybody's given up on us tonight, huh? Online?

02:07:30.000 --> 02:07:34.000
We found better things to do.

02:07:34.000 --> 02:07:40.000
Okay. With that, we are done. We are adjourned. Thank you very much.

02:07:40.000 --> 02:07:45.000
Good night, everybody.